trying to sell [give] our car to daughter in michigan ain't easy

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

It all started with our daughter, a Michigan resident needing a car to finish school at Ann Arbor.  Her trusty '97 Buick had to go when the brakes failed [thankfully at startup and not in traffic] and there was so much more that was unsafe about the car. We just wanted to add her to our family policy, but she would have to live with us. She could buy a non-owners policy for liability only, but that is 3x the price of what she would have if she owned the car. 

    So we decided to sell it  To her. Out of state.  In the peoples republic of Michigan.

 

 But not so fast    First, you need to jump through the normal hoops to sell a car out of state to a resident of Michigan. . You also has to have the insurance policy, and you need to schedule an appointment with the BMV.  So they called for an appointment and the first available is August something.  I don't know how other states run their stuff, but that is third world government compared to Ohio.

 As an out of the box type thinker, the only way it might be able to work is to find a Michigan car dealer and sell the cat to them and that would clear the way to have the dealer sell the car to my daughter. There might be other illegal ways to do things like say she lives with us, but if she would get caught, that could mess up a possible employment opportunity if it showed up in a pre employment screening. 

  I am all ears on this one. A non-owners policy is just out of the question. Uber is cheaper. Then you have the insurance companies and BMV shooting us down at every level.

[Maxwell-8 4,275]

3 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

insurance companies

 

3 hours ago, ohiofarmer said:

shooting down at every level.

I am 19. we can legally drive a car from the age of 18 in Belgium.  Insurance would ask  1200$ a year for me, driving a small Toyota 1.8l. So I bought the car, but got registered under my parents names. so officially they are the owners. We gave up on the insurance that I would most likely drive with the car. Insurance rates droped to 700$ I believe. That is how we are doing it here in Belgium, maybe could work for you in the US

[SylvanLakeWH 25,494]

Sad…

 

Only another example of the state of affairs here in Michigan…

 

Pre-Covid it was normal to wait 3+ hours for service at Secretary of State for simple transactions… Now you need appointments and can’t get them for months… people  are even selling appointments on the social media “black market” according to press reports… 

 

Nonsense…

 

[MoreyToo 68]

 

Ohio,

If you go to the Secretary of State website at 8am or 12 noon, you can get an appointment the same day or the following day. I found it very easy and with the appointment system your wait is very short when you arrive.

 

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

2 minutes ago, MoreyToo said:

 

Ohio,

If you go to the Secretary of State website at 8am or 12 noon, you can get an appointment the same day or the following day. I found it very easy and with the appointment system your wait is very short when you arrive.

 

     Thanks for that. My wife was telling me that it could be a possibility. If that works we need to get that car up there @MoreyToo I will certainly let you know how that works out.

She is in Michigan right now, but now will have to come home and get the old Pontiac and the paperwork.. They will both be here for a funeral, so we will just trade cars.  All this is quite a logistical journey for us in that we thought that we could just provide a car and add Daughter to our policy. if she were younger, maybe so, but she is 35 and going for a higher degree. The Post hole Digger is what I call it.

  

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

2 hours ago, Maxwell-8 said:

 

I am 19. we can legally drive a car from the age of 18 in Belgium.  Insurance would ask  1200$ a year for me, driving a small Toyota 1.8l. So I bought the car, but got registered under my parents names. so officially they are the owners. We gave up on the insurance that I would most likely drive with the car. Insurance rates droped to 700$ I believe. That is how we are doing it here in Belgium, maybe could work for you in the US

      She is beyond that age, having been going to college and working/saving for more college, and then still more.

But I do see thae here in the US, that people who have less than stellar credit scores pay twice as much for insurance, Couple that with being young, and it is wicked expensive. Another trap is getting too much college debt. Too many fall for that one and regret their decision

[Pullstart 62,804]

I have purchased out of state vehicles three times.  I put insurance on them, drove them home and made a visit to the DMV.  Currently in Michigan’s sort of affairs... I have two vehicles on the road with no registration but an insurance policy and an appointment scheduled.  I have personally asked an officer of the law and he stated that’s all I can do and they aren’t going to do anything about it.  I see plateless  vehicles all over.  

Edited June 10, 2021 by pullstart
Can’t count

[SylvanLakeWH 25,494]

1 minute ago, pullstart said:

I have personally asked an officer of the law and he stated that’s all I can do and they aren’t going to do anything about it.  I see plateless  vehicles all over.  

Agree.

 

Sad… sad… sad…

 

There is no reason for us being in this situation…

 

[Pullstart 62,804]

Expires 10/30/20.  That one might just be milking it...

 

 

[BOB ELLISON 2,981]

Michigan is the worst state for insurance and trying to get a car transferred . If you go to Michigan secretary of state. Michigan sos.gov/ appointments. you can get an appointment but you have to go at 8am and 12noon. I got in the day after I perchance a car and needed to transfer the title.

About 15 years or so ago there was plenty of sos office's open in my area. Then they started closing them and now there's only 1 SOS  officein a 15 mile area. Our secretary of SOS is a bad joke.

 

[roadapples 6,983]

Pa has plenty of faults, but I have never been to the DMV in my life...

[Handy Don 12,163]

4 hours ago, pullstart said:

I have purchased out of state vehicles three times.  I put insurance on them, drove them home and made a visit to the DMV.  Currently in Michigan’s sort of affairs... I have two vehicles on the road with no registration but an insurance policy and an appointment scheduled.  I have personally asked an officer of the law and he stated that’s all I can do and they aren’t going to do anything about it.  I see plateless  vehicles all over.  

In my area of NY, based only on anecdotal information, plateless vehicles may have some sort of law enforcement homing tracker. Different friends had a car (being moved across town from a home to a service station) and a trailer (bought that day and being brought home from a place 25 miles away) stopped for unregistered operation--the car driver was summoned but the trailer tower got a warning. I get the difference based on the insurance and liability risk levels involved. Having an insurance card in the car makes a big difference.

 

Yet I've seen long out-of-date plates used for months on other vehicles and not attract notice (though I do see every couple of weeks from the "blotter" in our local paper that there must have been a blitz to stop vehicles with expired registrations). Another friend has several trailers but only one plate that he puts on whatever trailer he's using that day.

[edgro 677]

I have given lots of cars to my daughter, with no problem, both of us being in michigan. Is it possible to do the same in ohio, have title transferred to her first, in ohio, then deal with michigan sos bs?

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

3 hours ago, edgro said:

I have given lots of cars to my daughter, with no problem, both of us being in michigan. Is it possible to do the same in ohio, have title transferred to her first, in ohio, then deal with michigan sos bs?

Probably not. Her ID would be needed to transfer the title and she is clearly a Michigan resident fo 5+ years.  I have no desire to pay two sets of sales taxes and I am guessing both states want that money.  Ohio is pretty hinky about jumping titles and out of state stuff.   If you buy an out of state car or motorcycle, it has to show up for a VIN inspection and mileage verification. That means if you buy a car titled elsewhere that does not run,it must be trailered to a BMV. I almost bought a non-running Diesel Ford truck with W VA title, but what a pain to pull it to the BMV for inspection. So I got it to run hoping to transport it and found out it has a bent or broken rod. It is still probably worth what he wants for it if a fella wanted a real nice single cab 2WD IDI Ford 7.3 I'm thinkin' @the handy professor

  The good thing about our bMV is you can pay by mail ,internet, or in person on renewal stuff.  In our small county, the wait times are usually lass than 15 minutes for normal stuff as they are run by privately licensed parties with computer connections to Columbus.

Edited June 10, 2021 by ohiofarmer

[shallowwatersailor 3,213]

Did she become a Michigan resident to claim in-state tuition? Most students keep their original state residency other than trying to save tuition.  Does Ohio make you pay sales tax on selling a vehicle? That is strange.

 

I can understand that Michigan would require sales tax as most states do the same thing. Here in Virginia appointments were scheduled out for six months at one time. 

[tom2p 2,394]

9 hours ago, roadapples said:

Pa has plenty of faults, but I have never been to the DMV in my life...

where did you get your photo license ?

 

 

[roadapples 6,983]

Photo place in gettysburg. Never thought about that being the same thing. In and out in 15min. Always thought of DMV in Harrisburg...

   All registration and title transfer is done at a private tag and title service.

[Tractorhead 9,064]

I appears a registration here can be done much quicker.

all you need is the buying contract - doesn‘t matter what price,

the Paperwork of the car ( old registration papers, a valid Tüv document) 

And a insurance number, than you go to the Registration office

Buy the licenseplates they be given and about 2-3h later you go out with a finally registered Car.

 

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

14 hours ago, shallowwatersailor said:

Did she become a Michigan resident to claim in-state tuition? Most students keep their original state residency other than trying to save tuition.  Does Ohio make you pay sales tax on selling a vehicle? That is strange.

 

I can understand that Michigan would require sales tax as most states do the same thing. Here in Virginia appointments were scheduled out for six months at one time. 

  Nothing like that. She is a Michigan resident because she is on an assistantship for a PhD. Believe me, that makes her a resident.[Besides that, it is much better to have residence and buy that no fault insurance if the guy you get in an accident with is also a Michigan resident]. They ,as part of that assistantship do research for the university. She does not pay tuition as such because it is a sort of full ride scholarship that you have to work for. The kid has bright prospects because she can listen to an engineer talking about something and understand enough to help them with the written narrative, She often calls me and asks about the shortcut language they use and then helps them some more.

  I tried to avoid saying what degree she was getting, but then just wanted you guys to know that everything is on the up and up. This is a tractor forum, not a brag about your kid forum. Right now, she is getting closer to the end and it becomes the mental equivalent of SEAL training. She needs to cut down on her gig work and defend her dissertation and all that. Her old car is done and scrapped and I guess we need to step up as parents. 

  So the proper way to do all this is to have the car title in hand with the owner if possible and get it sold directly to her. I don't really understand how Michigan can keep their Mary Jane stores up and running and not keep the title process going correctly. The people in government probably do not understand the hoops the common resident has to jump through because they probably buy or lease all their cars new from a dealer

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

I would just LOAN her the car and if there was any issue, she could say she borrowed it while hers was getting worked on. Leave it in your name and carry the insurance, she could just pay you if needed.

 

 

Randy

[ACman 7,618]

….Oh believe me they have a clause for that too especially if they can prove she’s drives it on regular basis and she’s a resident . That goes for in state residents for where you actually live and where it’s registered too  = big fine and nothing will be covered in a accident if they want to push it . She needs to make appointment and have the title in hand filled out with proof of insurance (please take the unlimited lifetime medical benefits believe me I know) mark the purchase price of a dollar as it shouldn’t matter because you don’t have to pay sales tax buying a vehicle from immediate family . Have her  try making a appointment at the Chelsea Michigan SOS office . She needs to carry her title , proof of insurance and proof of a appointment to drive the car without a plate . If the car does have a valid Ohio plate and insurance I don’t see a issue why she can’t drive with that until she can get in especially if she has proof of appointment even with expired Ohio tag .  Don’t take this as gospel as who knows what the law is now.  It’s what I’ve had friends and relatives do since the covid restrictions were put in place .

Edited June 11, 2021 by ACman

[ohiofarmer 3,265]

You can loan a car to someone who has insurance, but might not be the best idea since she cancelled hers when her car got scrapped. Also, we are high asset people because we have a farm. Not Rich, but anything like a lawsuit that exceeds the liability limit could cost us the farm.

 

 Anyway, its a moot point. As of yesterday, she got in on the hotline for sos appointments and the title was transferred ,and she has insurance.FYI you get these quick appointments by calling in at 8 AM or noon. for the limited number available. Reminds me of Covid appt protocol

 

 Thanks, everyone for your help. Maybe I am too cautious for some of you, but that sort of goes with the territory of moving into our fixed income years and knowing people who have had legal nightmares

 

Edited June 17, 2021 by ohiofarmer

[Handy Don 12,163]

58 minutes ago, ohiofarmer said:

Maybe I am too cautious

Doesn't sound that way to me. I've finally found an insurance agent whose expertise inspires trust and her guidance is always to read the fine print and "stay inside the lines".

People with no assets can afford to take risks--that's the main reason NY was an early adopter of no-fault automobile insurance.