312-8 Deck grass sticking

[PbFlinger 64]

Anybody else have this problem? 48” side discharge. This after 3 hrs. Started with clean pressure washed deck.  X-ed mid lift blades. Been dealing with this for 15 years. 

[PbFlinger 64]

Have tried numerous ant-stick junk. Couple of coats of car wax works best, but just marginally delays problem & makes it a little easier to scrape off. 

[Brockport Bill 1,660]

spring makes for very moist grass that's for sure -- we all get some build up, especially in spring --- i have used some commercial no stick products -- but also WD - 40 seems to be somewhat effective -- but primary value is it cleans easier with putty knife of pressure washer -- but still will get some buildup

[Brockport Bill 1,660]

what's with the blades??

[oldlineman 1,481]

that was my thought maybe try one blade per spindle as it was designed. I have a 48" and when mowing dry grass have no trouble with g that much grass buildup. Bob

[JoeM 7,871]

I would kind of tie the problem to the side discharge using the dual blade set up. I messed with the idea a few years back and used a rear discharge. Just figure the finer clipping cling more and once they start to build up.... game over. I would go to single blades and compare the results. Are you cutting the grass short? Will raising a notch help. I have cut with the 48 inch standard WH blades all conditions and never had that issue.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by JoeM

[peter lena 8,588]

@PbFlinger, how high do you let your grass get , before cutting ? is it always wet ? I do not have any " rot boxes " on my decks , tried to ventilate them and clean out debris, ended up cutting wheel removal. much better discharge with very little build up . also lawn looks evenly cut at highest cut, with no rows or cutting lines. drop the decks couple of times a year , light cleaning , oil spray down and drying upside down in the sun , deck gets hot ,sucking in the oil , to stop rot . like this , purests are terrified to remove the rot box , i under stand its intended purpose , but it was poorly designed , and assures deck rot . you have to change something  to improve your issue . only a suggestion  , pete

 

[tunahead72 2,411]

@peter lena  By "rot box", do you mean the baffle assembly towards the rear of the deck?

 

[peter lena 8,588]

@tunahead72, the baffle assembly on the foward rounded edge of the R/ D deck , basically the only blade / baffle set up under deck. my initial air  / venting holes found tight wet grass , never drying out . mine were in rough shape , after cutting wheel work , a much easier area to clean out and hot sun lubricate . all of my decks have this , with very little build up , and no cutting issues , I also never cut the same way , mixing it up eliminates tracking and lets it look better . just got thru cutting , did a quick aerosol lube touch up on height adjustment area and rear wheel axel swing , as well as tech a matic  frame hook up, everything working very easily .pete 

[PbFlinger 64]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies. I’ll try to answer some of your questions & further describe my conditions. 
I’ve been mowing this same property with this mower for about 15 years. It’s at a property of mine about 1/2 hr from my house. I’m gone to work about 14 hrs a day, 4 days a week, so I usually get my pick of the best of my 3 days off to mow. Mowing takes me 4-6 hrs depending on conditions. It’s not always ideal. 
I understand that always mowing when it’s dead dry & short is the best, however in my part of west central Indiana it rains nearly every day that it doesn’t snow, ha. It’s rarely completely dry. My grass grows so fast you can just about stand there & watch it coming up. If I have to skip a week because of rain, it’s 6” tall next time I get to it. I understand it’s going to clump up the deck then.
However it always builds up to the point that I have to scrape every weekend. 

1. I have my deck as high as it will go

2. I mow in 1st gear high unless I need to go slower. I watch the discharge to make sure it’s clearing ok. 
3. I used the standard 3 blade setup for 10 years. Little difference in buildup. Tried the extra blade setup upon reading about it on various forums. Same buildup but cuts better in the heavy stuff. 
4. Several times I looked under the deck periodically while mowing to see where the buildup was starting. (Usually to scrape or inspect I just drive the front wheels onto the bucket on my tractor & lift the front end up a few feet; way easier than pulling the deck). The buildup starts off of the blade tips where the grass is slung off centrifugally & sticks to the sides. That’s why I originally tried the X-blade configuration, using the smaller mule pulley to slow the blades down; theory being same or greater number of cutting tip passes per foot of forward travel but lower centrifugal sling. Didn’t seem to make much difference. 

[PbFlinger 64]

Thing is, I have a good friend that mows commercially part time with a Scag ZTR. Same area, same conditions, says he cleans his deck once a year. 
I just saw the post about removing the “rot boxes” but haven’t got to read it fully yet. Thanks, I’ll study that when I get time. 

[peter lena 8,588]

newbie, thank you for the grass condition detail , that would explain your issue/ problem , without a doubt the wet / high set up you have is the issue, its simply over whelming the decks discharge, initially was thinking about a mulching blade  , like this ,https://www.google.com/search?q=wheel+horse+mulch+blades&sxsrf=ALeKk01TuqwF5fm5ff6kcUPO2zaiWzzdKg%3A1621280066632&source=hp&ei=QsWiYPmHI-av5NoPv-amyAQ&iflsig=AINFCbYAAAAAYKLTUuxFI_yJJTQslVmNat3to3f0gBqw&oq=wheel+horse+mulch+blades&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBggAEBYQHjIGCAAQFhAeOgQIIxAnOgUIABCRAjoICAAQsQMQgwE6CwguELEDEMcBEKMCOgUIABCxAzoCCAA6BAgAEEM6CggAEIcCELEDEBQ6BwguEIcCEBQ6CgguEIcCELEDEBQ6CAgAEMkDEJECOgcIABCxAxAKOgcIABCHAhAUUL8HWKhVYLRaaABwAHgBgAHfAogByROSAQgxNy42LjAuMZgBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXo&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj5sMzzutHwAhXmF1kFHT-zCUkQ4dUDCAk&uact=5, mabey worth a look , pete

[PbFlinger 64]

Well that’s often the case but not always. The buildup in the pic was (externally) dry grass, but taller than ideal. Like I said I have to scrape every week regardless of conditions. Just wondering how the modern deck designs can mow so fast even in the rain & get essentially zero buildup. 

[OutdoorEnvy 1,522]

I would experiment with some different blade style types just to see what may help.  High lift designs should have more powerful air flow for moving grass better.  But those gator blades for mulching that have the tooth-like fins on the back side are suppose to mulch it finer.  Finer clippings might clear out better as well.  I used them on a lawn tractor and it's mulch cut was excellent in my opinion.  Tough to say really but hey if you know what you got isn't working try something new.  Lots of good designs out there so something should work better for you I would think.  I have 312-8 also but run the 42" deck and I don't have clumping issues at all, but haven't tackled anything like you seem to be cutting.  I'm using a high lift style blade from Stens on mine, running 3 blades.  Your 6 blade setup makes me think it might be blocking the grass flow too maybe like someone else said. 

 

Last resort could be looking for a pull behind swisher setup with it's own engine.  Find a 6 to 8 footer and pull that around with your 312 and get done quicker.  

[PbFlinger 64]

Again appreciate the replies, suggestions & interest. If the object was to get the grass hacked down quickly I’d just go dump $15k on a Z turn. Truth is, I look forward all week to clattering around for an afternoon with a beer on my Horse, grumbling to myself about the modern world, since it seems I’m the last one that notices or cares. I’d rather eat worms than spend a minute on a ferrin mower. Just wondered if anybody else had any mods or ideas to improve this deck. Not knocking it- it has held up admirably in more bush hogging than mowing conditions. But it is what it is. If it was the ultimate design it would be what you’d see when you peer under a new $15k mower. Will report back upon further experimentation. Again thanks & kind thoughts to all. 

[tom2p 2,394]

this year I'm also getting a lot of heavy grass clipping buildup on the underside of the deck ... more than I recall in previous years 

 

went over the deck quickly to remove the accumulated thick stuff - and next time I cut grass after an hour or so of cutting the buildup was already significant 

this year I've cut the grass more often as opposed to prev years - maybe the smaller clippings contribute ... ? ....  (along with moisture and whatever else)

 

[Handy Don 12,167]

FWIW, my (mostly satisfactory) experience with mulching blades is that early season, healthy green grass has more moisture in it and when cut finely it turns more "mushy" and sticks readily. 

Same as @PbFlinger, the mushy starts on the blade ends and in the deck where it has been "flung" () off of the blade.

I'm hoping this summer to add a hose port (seen on some pro mowers) to the top of the deck so I can do a quick rinse after each use.

[ronhatch 406]

I opened up the discharge on my 42" SD deck by about 4" and filled in the pie shaped opening in the top of the deck with 14 ga black metal.  The clippings fly out  in a open fan pattern now. Next I'd like to speed up the deck RPM's,  but finding a smaller double pulley with a double D bore is not easy.

 

[kpinnc 11,933]

On 5/17/2021 at 3:06 PM, PbFlinger said:

Thing is, I have a good friend that mows commercially part time with a Scag ZTR. Same area, same conditions, says he cleans his deck once a year.

I think the number one issue with most decks is not the baffles- it's the size of the exhaust chute and no baffle at the chute as well. I use a Scag for my property, and also clean once a season. Scags and many commercial mowers are baffled front and rear, and have a dam above the chute to prevent grass that isn't thrown out from recirculating into the deck. Add that to almost a two foot wide discharge, and you have very little buildup. 

 

The primary use of a baffle is to create higher airflow. The only classic wheelhorse decks with even decent lift and airflow by comparison are the 37sd and 60sd, and they are only about half of what ZTRs have just due to blade tip speed.

 

I'm not hating on WH mower decks. It's just obvious that tractors were designed to do multiple jobs at an acceptable level. ZTRs are made for only one thing and are optimized for it. 

[kpinnc 11,933]

You can see the little "dam" or whatever it's called in the underside view of the Scag deck below. Most commercial mowers have this small block that rides just above the blade at the exhaust. Grass clumps there, but it can be reached from outside and cleaned regularly. I think I may add one to a WH deck and see how much difference it makes. If you notice- every rotted deck we find has holes right there anyway.

 

Also- compare the chute size between commercial mower vs WH. Big difference. 

 

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by kpinnc

[peter lena 8,588]

@PbFlinger, obviously  your wet grass build up  /  discharge  issue is extreme , you have a few choices , my reference to " rot boxes " , is just what they are , while designed to increase cyclonic  spin up , the bottom side shield traps wet grass , and with out being able to dry out , and clean , they will rot out the deck . think a 42 " r/d  deck with recycler blades would be better , bigger discharge will definitely help . or your opportunity time and moisture problem , simply could be too much for your horse to handle , thinking  an open flail mower type would be better . seen those easily decimate fields of hi / wet  grass with no issues . another idea would be to offer the grass to a local farmer , for the taking / clean up , surely he would have a tractor set up for haying , and make quick work of it , pete

[PbFlinger 64]

Hi guys, thanks for the responses. I happen to have a 37 inch side discharge that I’m rebuilding right now. It has an anti-circulation baffle above the blade furthest from the discharge. I have contemplated adding some of these on my 48” triple blade deck. The one you described at the discharge of your Scag probably helps quite a bit, forcing the grass to go out rather than around again.

[PbFlinger 64]

I have studied some pictures of modern commercial decks that I found online, Scag and others. These decks seem to not have much of a problem with packing up. Some common design elements I have observed in all of them seem to be that the circular baffles are held very close to the blade tips, and any place under the deck where this is not true there is a large distance between the blade tip and any vertical wall. I would guess that this forces most of the clippings to travel circularly rather than radially, and allows any grass slung off centrifugally outside of the baffled area to slow down before it impacts the wall, possibly minimizing sticking. 

[PbFlinger 64]

One of the luxuries that the designers had under these mowers is real estate. They have about a foot of extra longitudinal room to play with. Perhaps I can come up with some airflow/swarf handling mods on this compact deck to help out some. 

[PbFlinger 64]

Now back to reality; I can’t even find time to have a sandwich. Any wind tunnel testing on mower decks will have to happen in my dreams during the several hours a day I get to sleep.