C121 or C161.....not sure

[WHX?? 48,815]

Nice Bob... just something about starting a rebuild like that! 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

31 minutes ago, Bill D said:

Parts look great!  Are you going to install one of David Kirk's balance plates on the crank?  Or send it to @Greentoredto have the crank balanced?  Whatever you do, leave out the balance gears. 

Balance gears are not going in. I’m thinking that with the rubber engine mounts I’ll be fine. If that thinking is in error please explain and I will consider.

[Bill D 1,920]

Talk to Scott @Greentored.  He can tell you all the pro and cons of having the crank balanced.  He did it on his K321 build.  I took a set of noisy balance gears out of an M16 and I don't like the vibration it has now.  I plan to tear it down soon.  Balancing the crank will result in a much smoother running and longer lasting engine. 

[ebinmaine 67,492]

I'll second the talking to Scott.

 

For the slight delay in getting that thing back together it would definitely be worth taking the time to do it now. 

[Greentored 3,201]

Thanks for tagging me in fellas! 

My guess is you'll be ok if you're using the shaker plate, but man those Kohlers are SUPER smoothe with balance gears and shaker plate combined! At the very minimum, i'd get one of Kirks plates and run it with the shaker.

My experiences are as follows:

K with no balance gears from factory- normal vibrations that you get used to

K with balance gear and shaker plate- nearly smoothe as a twin cylinder

K with balance gears removed- very noticeable difference in vibes, especially around maybe 2000rpm, pretty 'normal' feeling at full song and idle

My K321 balanced correctly at 50%- noticeably smoother than a standard K with no factory balance gears, comfy to operate, but definitely not as smoothe as a shaker plate/balance gear combo. Factory balance gear'ed K might be a touch smoother.

I have no experience with how kirk's plates 'feel', but he is accomplishing basically the same thing as my balance jobs done with adding tungsten slugs to the counterweights, just perhaps not as 'individually tuned'.

Hope this helps

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Greentored

[Handy Don 12,222]

13 hours ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Finally got the K341 back and boy is it pretty! Bored 20, valves ground and head trued. Hot tanked and bead lasted to boot. Who doesn’t love perfect, clean engine parts! Let the build begin.

 

 

Wow, that is one pretty sight!

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

5 hours ago, Greentored said:

Thanks for tagging me in fellas! 

My guess is you'll be ok if you're using the shaker plate, but man those Kohlers are SUPER smoothe with balance gears and shaker plate combined! At the very minimum, i'd get one of Kirks plates and run it with the shaker.

My experiences are as follows:

K with no balance gears from factory- normal vibrations that you get used to

K with balance gear and shaker plate- nearly smoothe as a twin cylinder

K with balance gears removed- very noticeable difference in vibes, especially around maybe 2000rpm, pretty 'normal' feeling at full song and idle

My K321 balanced correctly at 50%- noticeably smoother than a standard K with no factory balance gears, comfy to operate, but definitely not as smoothe as a shaker plate/balance gear combo. Factory balance gear'ed K might be a touch smoother.

I have no experience with how kirk's plates 'feel', but he is accomplishing basically the same thing as my balance jobs done with adding tungsten slugs to the counterweights, just perhaps not as 'individually tuned'.

Hope this helps

 

 

I’ve done a fair amount of reading on this subject. I completely rebuilt a Briggs Model 23FB last year. That is a big honking Cast iron single without counter balance gears and it isn’t bad, although the crank could be balanced better than a Kohler. 
 

Anyway, I read that k series cranks are better balanced than Magnum cranks. 🤔 I was lead to believe K’s aren’t bad without the gears and considering the rubber mounts I was hoping it would be fine. 
 

On another note, if you’ve priced a crank for one of these you would understand my hesitation around shipping it off. Damage and or loss are real possibilities with the usps. 
 

As for the plates, I’d have to find someone willing to machine the crank and mount them. The shops around here are swamped. I had trouble getting one to do the work I just had done and it took 3x longer than quoted. 
 

 

For better or worse, I think I’ll button it up without gears and hope for the best. Worse case I’ll tear it apart later and get the crank balanced or reinstall the gears.

[Greentored 3,201]

1 hour ago, WheelhorseBob said:

I’ve done a fair amount of reading on this subject. I completely rebuilt a Briggs Model 23FB last year. That is a big honking Cast iron single without counter balance gears and it isn’t bad, although the crank could be balanced better than a Kohler. 
 

Anyway, I read that k series cranks are better balanced than Magnum cranks. 🤔 I was lead to believe K’s aren’t bad without the gears and considering the rubber mounts I was hoping it would be fine. 
 

On another note, if you’ve priced a crank for one of these you would understand my hesitation around shipping it off. Damage and or loss are real possibilities with the usps. 
 

As for the plates, I’d have to find someone willing to machine the crank and mount them. The shops around here are swamped. I had trouble getting one to do the work I just had done and it took 3x longer than quoted. 
 

 

For better or worse, I think I’ll button it up without gears and hope for the best. Worse case I’ll tear it apart later and get the crank balanced or reinstall the gears.

'Lawn duty'- my K341 swapped 1277 is solid mounted, and was ran a few times with the gears, til I got nervous and popped them out. (Glad I did because they were ready to let go, and it was NOT awfully noisy!) There was a very noticeable difference in back to back comparison, but I believe if it weren't for running it, popping the gears and firing it right back up, I wouldn't think its anything much more than a typical non geared big block K. 

Betting you will enjoy a plenty smoothe runner with nothing but gears removed and a shaker plate

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Freshly sandblasted wheels. I love starting with clean parts. A little progress as I wait for my governor gear.

[WHX?? 48,815]

3 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

I love starting with clean parts

[PWL216 889]

On 5/19/2021 at 6:20 PM, WheelhorseBob said:

I’ve been asked about sand blasting. This is the unit I have use of. Works great! That battery tray was bad!

I just bought this exact same sandblasted at an auction for $75. I’ve never sandblasted and was wondering where the vacuum connects? In the back of my unit they installed a Skat Blast reclaimer. Is that where the vac should go? Thx!

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

38 minutes ago, PWL216 said:

I just bought this exact same sandblasted at an auction for $75. I’ve never sandblasted and was wondering where the vacuum connects? In the back of my unit they installed a Skat Blast reclaimer. Is that where the vac should go? Thx!

You know I’ve never actually looked but I will tomorrow. I have more to do.

[ebinmaine 67,492]

3 hours ago, WheelhorseBob said:

. I love starting with clean parts

 

3 hours ago, WHX24 said:

 

 

Us too. 

It's really the only way to go. 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

On 7/20/2021 at 6:31 PM, PWL216 said:

I just bought this exact same sandblasted at an auction for $75. I’ve never sandblasted and was wondering where the vacuum connects? In the back of my unit they installed a Skat Blast reclaimer. Is that where the vac should go? Thx!

Top right in the back if looking at the cabinet from the front.

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Engine is going together. Governor, cam, valves and crank installed. Crank end play is a wee bit tight but in spec at .004. I debated putting another .009 shim in. Opinions? Spec is .003-.020.

Edited July 25, 2021 by WheelhorseBob

[Gregor 4,846]

Very interesting thread. I'm hooked. I think I may have a rebuild coming up on a newly acquired 341 in the future.

[Greentored 3,201]

13 hours ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Engine is going together. Governor, cam, valves and crank installed. Crank end play is a wee bit tight but in spec at .004. I debated putting another .009 shim in. Opinions? Spec is .003-.020.

Run it

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Got a little more done with the nice weather this weekend. Painted front wheels and mounted new rib tires, got the steering set and got it rolling. These are the tears I’m going to use. They are loaded and came off my loader tractor. I need to paint them to match but because they’re loaded I’ll have to do it with the tires on. Tips or tricks appreciated. Now into the basement to put the piston and rod in a K341.

[ebinmaine 67,492]

12 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Tips or tricks appreciated

If you can stuff a playing card betwixt the tire and rim they can be used as a mask when placed all the way around the rim. 

 

I've read that others have used a smear of ((Vaseline??)) On the tire to prevent the paint sticking. 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

If you can stuff a playing card betwixt the tire and rim they can be used as a mask when placed all the way around the rim. 

 

I've read that others have used a smear of ((Vaseline??)) On the tire to prevent the paint sticking. 

If I could deflate them that would work but being fluid filled I don’t think the cards would fit. Vaseline sounds interesting 🤔.  On another note piston installed and oil pan bolted up. My dad’s old ring compressor. Always cool to use dad’s tools, he’s been gone almost 50 years.

[ebinmaine 67,492]

1 hour ago, WheelhorseBob said:

My dad’s old ring compressor. Always cool to use dad’s tools, he’s been gone almost 50 years

Absolutely agreed.  

I have quite a few old tools from elders I've inherited from over the years. 

 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Not a lot of progress lately but did get the K341 painted and head on. Went with duplicolor engine paint an really liked it. This red is almost exactly IH red so it will be perfect. I bought this engine totally apart and in boxes. It’s been frustrating to try and find all the little bits, for instance I was short 3 head bolt washers😡. Had to get some off flea bay.....

[Handy Don 12,222]

Very handsome look

[ebinmaine 67,492]

29 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Very handsome look

Agreed. 

Looks great Bob

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

NOS.....found me a NOS C-series hood and a set of NOS 520 rear rims amongst other things. Sorry Black hood guys it ain’t looking good from your perspective...