48 inch Side Discharge Deck Restoration

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

10 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

Did you notice one of the spindles is cracked where it bolts to the deck ?

 

I saw that.

 

10 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

I'll also be willing to bet rocks, sand, dirt, and debri being thrown against the left sides of the housings had the effect of sandblasting them.

Have you, or any of you other guys, noticed more damage to the center, and right spindle housings, particularly on their left sides ?

 

You're probably correct about the flying debris to some extent, but I just finished re-doing my 40 year old deck and the spindle housings were NOTHING like what you are seeing, and your deck is much newer!  The outsides of these spindles was relatively pristine.  Since the early 90s when I got my machine I've always super cleaned the deck before storing for winter.  If I hadn't been doing this I suspect I would see the same as yours.  I think that abuse and lack of maintenance caused the demise of yours.

 

What I DID find on mine that necessitated replacement rather than repair was that dirt that accumulated and packed inside the 'cups' at the bottom ended up grinding the bottom of the spindle off, right to the snap ring.

 

I'm going to make it part of my annual cleaning ritual to clean the inside of those cups from now on!

 

You might find some useful information in these threads:

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

your ground rollers and brackets also need a refit, and upgrade .

Thanks @peter lena... I have seen your thread on deck treatment and preservation. I usually paint the underside of my decks, however that is not necessarily written in stone.

In order to preserve, and make them last, neither the deck or the 520H it goes on will be seeing much heavy action.

Thanks again for your suggestions, and please return to this thread, especially as I get more into the deck restoration. I am certain to need all of the help I can get.

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

12 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Never cleaning the underside of the deck.

Exactly @Jeff-C175...the PO did not take care of it very well. I rescued the 520H that the deck goes on. He had a garage full of junk and the 520H sitting out in the weather.

I bought it from his widow.

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

12 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Never cleaning the underside of the deck.

Exactly @Jeff-C175...the PO did not take care of it very well. I rescued the 520H that the deck goes on. He had a garage full of junk and the 520H sitting out in the weather.

I bought it from his widow.

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

Didn't really get much more done to the deck restoration...proceeding with caution, and from what I've read on here, and based on me knowing my mechanical abilities, and my tendency to be easily confused, I'd better do just that.

But, I did spray the deck hardware down with penetration oil and began a good investigation looking for stress cracks and other issues that will have to be addressed.

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

So...if I'm not lost completely on this deck spindle assembly thing...

@Jeff-C175 , @daveoman1966 , and @squonk , does it sound like I need to order the spindle kit # 111726 for my 1994, 48 inch cut, side discharge deck ?

And... since I have a later model(1994)...

1. All 3 spindle shafts will be the same/ 5/8" on top(no keyway).

2. All 3 spindle shafts will be 3/4"(17mm) on bottom.

3. Center spindle shaft will be longer to accommodate the double pulley.

 

Sound Correct ?

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

5 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

Sound Correct ?

 

Don't quote me, and double check the parts lists to be certain, but I do think that 111726 should be the correct spindle assembly with the 5/8" no keyway pulleys on your deck.  Dave would know for certain, he is the man it seems!

 

1 and 2 , yes... but I believe that the BLADE shaft is still 3/4 and not 17 mm ( The blade holes are actually 3/4".  It's the BEARINGS inside the assembly that are metric size AFAIK, so there would be three different diameters on the spindle shaft I believe.  3/4 for the blade, 17 mm for the bearings, and 5/8 for the pulleys )  3/4 is actually VERY close to 19 mm.  Dave, please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

 

3. NO.  All three spindles are the same.

 

 

 

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Don't quote me, and double check the parts lists to be certain, but I do think that 111726 should be the correct spindle assembly with the 5/8" no keyway pulleys on your deck.  Dave would know for certain, he is the man it seems!

 

1 and 2 , yes... but I believe that the BLADE shaft is still 3/4 and not 17 mm ( The blade holes are actually 3/4".  It's the BEARINGS inside the assembly that are metric size AFAIK, so there would be three different diameters on the spindle shaft I believe.  3/4 for the blade, 17 mm for the bearings, and 5/8 for the pulleys )  3/4 is actually VERY close to 19 mm.  Dave, please correct me if I'm wrong on this!

 

3. NO.  All three spindles are the same.

 

 

 

Thanks @Jeff-C175...my main concern is the pulleys...I was really not wanting to hunt down different pulleys.

So 6203-2rs would be the 17mm bearings...correct ?

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, Horse Newbie said:

So 6203-2rs would be the 17mm bearings...correct ?

 

I believe so, but not sure what the -2RS means.  I think that the 2 and the S means that there are seals on both sides, but not sure about the R

 

The 3/4 bearings if you can find them have a -12 at the end I believe and was told that it means  " 12 sixteenths " or 3/4 inch.  But those are still a 6203 bearing so be careful ordering.

 

@daveoman1966 is the guy who could give some definite answers though.  I learned almost everything I know from him!

 

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

34 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I believe so, but not sure what the -2RS means.  I think that the 2 and the S means that there are seals on both sides, but not sure about the R

 

The 3/4 bearings if you can find them have a -12 at the end I believe and was told that it means  " 12 sixteenths " or 3/4 inch.  But those are still a 6203 bearing so be careful ordering.

 

@daveoman1966 is the guy who could give some definite answers though.  I learned almost everything I know from him!

 

When you say 3/4 bearings, are you referring to the 17mm that would go down at the bottom of the housing near the blade ?

Like you stated... real confusing...

Yeah, I was hoping @daveoman1966 would get a notification and add some knowledge.

Thanks for your help !

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

4 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

When you say 3/4 bearings, are you referring to the 17mm that would go down at the bottom of the housing near the blade ?

Like you stated... real confusing...

Yeah, I was hoping @daveoman1966 would get a notification and add some knowledge.

Thanks for your help !

 

The OLDER spindle assemblies used a bearing that had a 3/4" bore.  The NEWER ones used a 17mm bore.  I believe that the 111726 uses the 17mm bore bearings, both top and bottom are the same.

 

If you get the bearings with seals on both sides, common practice is to pop the INNER seal out before installing so that it can get greased.  Some fellas report having good luck with leaving both seals in place and not greasing the spindles.  Personally, I wouldn't do that.

 

So, if I am correct, the TOP of the shaft is 5/8" for the pulleys.  The MIDDLE of the shaft is 17mm for the bearings.  The BOTTOM of the shaft is 3/4" for the blades.

 

Dave will be by soon I'm sure.

 

 

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

Update on the desk resto...took the blades off...16 " long, luckily not much trouble loosening the blade nuts on the bottom of spindle shafts with an impact wrench  (Was afraid I was gonna need the heat wrench).

Arbor hole on the blade looks like 3/4" according to a carpenter's stick ruler, but take a look at this video; the blade holes seem to have a lot of wiggle room around the spindle shaft.

Is this normal ?

Edited May 17, 2021 by Horse Newbie

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

17 minutes ago, Horse Newbie said:

Is this normal ?

 

No, that doesn't look normal to me at all.

 

Can you get a close up still shot from the side of the shaft?

 

It looks to me as if the blades were loose, or had been in the past, and the shaft is worn down in that area.

 

There's no way you can get the blade centered, you'll probably have tremendous vibration issues due to out of balance condition.

 

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

, that doesn't look normal to me at all.

@Jeff-C175 The left spindle shaft seems to be the worst, but all three had more wiggle room that what I've ever seen on any brand of deck.

I tried to get a close up.

I have, or will tomorrow, order 3 new spindle assemblies ( that's gonna hurt ) from a fellow member on here, so not much worried about the slop at this point.

I have quite a few stress cracks to address.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Horse Newbie

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

Okay...need some advice on how to remove this center pulley/ pulleys without tearing them up. I have whopped the top of the spindle shaft with a nylon head hammer ( with nut screwed on a bit )...I have wacked it with a 2 lb hammer with a 2x4 on top to maybe keep from wrecking the top of the shaft...I would really like to not damage the pulleys...as you can see the lock washer is done.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Horse Newbie

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

Thought about to try and loosen the pulleys on the spindle shafts by putting a 1-1/8 th wrench on the big hex at the bottom, gripping the pulleys shoulder(right & left, center has no shoulder) with a pipe wrench and maybe turning a bit. But before I do I want to make shure that the pulley holes are not splined...anybody know ?

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

What do you guys think about taking a punch/ center punch and putting it in the grease zerk hole and knocking the maholies out of it ?

I tried heat from a mapp gas torch...did not budge

Edited May 18, 2021 by Horse Newbie

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

4 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

more wiggle room

 

Those threads should extend all the way down to the big nut.  Definitely some loose blades caused that issue. 

 

Were BOTH washers still in place?  Thin one on top of the blade, thicker one on the bottom?

 

 

Blade nut torque is something like 80 - 100 ft lbs.   Pulley is 60 - 80 .  

 

             

 

 

3 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

the pulley holes are not splined...anybody know ?

 

They are not, but I don't know if that's going to work or not.  I don't like the idea because you could end up 'egging' the pulley collar.  Pipe wrenches put a tremendous amount of 'squeeze' on the thing being removed. 

 

WD-40 ain't the best thing to use though.  I've never had any luck with it.  I have had good luck with PB Blaster (some of the others on here don't like it though... but it works for me)

 

Get some PB, put it on there around the shaft. After a couple more hours, put some more.  After a couple more hours, put some more.  Let it soak in and do it's magic.  Be patient, if it takes days, it takes days.

 

Above all, do NOT attempt to use any sort of 3 jaw puller, you WILL destroy the pulley!

 

3 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

What do you guys think about taking a punch/ center punch and putting it in the grease zerk hole and knocking the maholies out of it ?

I tried heat from a mapp gas torch...did not budge

 

If you do that and spread the top of the shaft you'll have to grind it down to get the pulley off once it busts loose.  You might end up having to grind it anyway even if you just whomp it with a BFH.

 

Apply the heat to the pulley hub, not the shaft.  You want to 'grow' the hub more than the shaft.  If you have some of that "Freeze Spray" in a can, when you get the pulley hub hot, hit the spindle shaft with the freeze spray.

 

4 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

not damage the pulleys

 

Good thinking... and sit down before you look up the price of those too...

 

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

3 hours ago, Horse Newbie said:

I have quite a few stress cracks to address.

 

When you drill the holes at the ends of the crack, remember that the end of the crack becomes microscopic so go a little past where you think it ends.

 

Those cracks are all typical, but this dent?  I can't imagine how that happened!

You don't want to bang that one out without an 'anvil' of some sort on the other side or you'll end up driving those cracks half way across the deck.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

If I need to repair the cracks on my deck again in the future, I'm going to add some 1/4" (maybe even 3/8") steel rods in the locations shown:

 

The other idea I had was to make larger 'back up' plates that go up and around the bend on the underside and weld them to the deck.

(but it might just move the crack location!)

 

This should spread the load and hopefully fix it once and for all.

 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[8ntruck 7,013]

In addition to adding reinforcement plates, get a pneumatic needle de-scaler and peen the dickens out of any repair welds that you do.  This will set up compressive residual stresses in the repair, making it more resistant to fatigue cracks in the future.

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

@Jeff-C175 , and @8ntruck, thank you guys a gazillion for your advice ! Let me cover where I left it tonight when I turned out the lights in Horse Newbie's Custom Hot Rod and Lawn Mower Shop...

Both washers were in place in only the right side spindle. The center and left spindle only had the thick washer at the blades. When I found the thin washer on the right spindle I did not recognize it as a washer. It looked more like a spindle cup, wrapped around the big hex at the bottom of the spindle shaft.

See pics 1 and 2

Pic 3 is what was left of the thin washer after I got it off and laid it on the workbench.

 

I DID NOT use the pipe wrench to try to turn the right and left pulleys...don't know if it would have "egged" it or not, but I know what you are saying Jeff...I've egged pipe before...

 

I've put PB Blaster and WD-40 on it...I plan to keep the pulleys/ shafts soaking while I take my time removing the pulleys.

I DID NOT go near the pulleys with a 3 jaw puller...I've already read and saw on Red Square the all-too-often results of that. I am not trying to buy pulleys too. I'll keep trying patience, PB Blaster, WD-40, and heat...by the way when I put heat on it from the MAPP torch, I did heat up the pulley shoulder/hub trying to expand it away from the shaft.

I'll have to get the freeze spray...thought of heat but did not think of the added element of contrasting cold...good idea !

 

As far as that dimple you circled...I may weld the stress crack then try to fix the dent.

 

I am employing the help of a friend who is a welder, machinist, blacksmith, artist, wrought iron guru, once I get all the hardware off the deck. He does have one of those pneumatic scalers. I will show him you guys suggestions because nobody knows everything.  The main thing at this point I believe is " Don't tear anything else up"...

 

Patience Grasshopper...

I was hoping @daveoman1966 would be dropping in..

Edited May 18, 2021 by Horse Newbie

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

On 5/17/2021 at 9:18 PM, Jeff-C175 said:

If you have some of that "Freeze Spray" in a can, when you get the pulley hub hot, hit the spindle shaft with the freeze spray.

I have not had a chance to try any of the freeze spray ( have to get some ), but if anybody has any other method of pulley removal on a deck restoration that I could try, please let me know

[gt14rider 763]

I read you are replacing the shafts, if so get a bigger hammer, don't use block of wood. Metal to metal, give it a couple good wacks, try not to pean top to much, replacing shafts anyway 

[Horse Newbie 7,071]

9 minutes ago, gt14rider said:

I read you are replacing the shafts, if so get a bigger hammer, don't use block of wood. Metal to metal, give it a couple good wacks, try not to pean top to much, replacing shafts anyway 

Yes...since I am replacing the shafts, I thought about a bigger hammer and just whailing on it !

Do you think it would pay to squirt some penetrant fluid down the grease zerk openings in case anything may be seized up in there ?