523-H high roller

[ebinmaine 67,598]

4 hours ago, kpinnc said:

the muffler. Definitely gonna need some extensions made up. I don't want it that close to the hood

How's it attach to the engine?

Easy enough to extend?

 

4 hours ago, kpinnc said:

the repower kit

 

 

I'm not very familiar with the newer horses. What's this?

Something sold by Wheelhorse or Toro?

 

[kpinnc 12,088]

22 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

How's it attach to the engine?

Easy enough to extend?

 

Yeah, straight pipe to the flange both sides. I think 2 inches welded in will fix the clearance.

 

23 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I'm not very familiar with the newer horses. What's this?

Something sold by Wheelhorse or Toro?

 

Jackssmallengines I think was the company that made repower kits for WH, JD, Cub, and others. They used Vanguards and Generac engines if memory serves. Seems like the WH kit was about $2,000. Pricey, but the kits came with everything. Pulleys, wiring, couplers for shaft drive, the whole thing.

[kpinnc 12,088]

Finally got the engine mount fabbed and installed. Alignment is perfect. Love it when a plan comes together!

 

I could've dropped the Onan plate altogether, but the PTO hoop thingy is already there. One less thing to worry about later.

 

Edited September 5, 2021 by kpinnc

[kpinnc 12,088]

Also, FWIW- this gives an idea of how the Vanguard block outer holes line up against the frame.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

17 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Finally got the engine mount fabbed and installed. Alignment is perfect. Love it when a plan comes together!

 

I could've dropped the Onan plate altogether, but the PTO hoop thingy is already there. One less thing to worry about later.

 

 

10 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Also, FWIW- this gives an idea of how the Vanguard block outer holes line up against the frame.

@chipwitch... you seeing this?

 

Don

[ebinmaine 67,598]

20 hours ago, kpinnc said:

Love it when a plan comes together!

Hannibal Smith would be proud!!

[MikMacMike 479]

On 6/11/2021 at 4:46 PM, Lee1977 said:

If it doesn't have reduction steering It may have been replaced with one from an early model. My 1989 has a straight triangle just like the older models.and fixed tie rods.

I replaced the tie rods with 1/2" heims joints and attached to the back side.

I did the same...was glad the clearance was all good too!

[kpinnc 12,088]

My engine blower cover had a wire protector on it, and brazed in studs that needed something on them. So I found a brand new OEM recoil starter kit on Fleabay for $20. Came with all the parts, and I figured it would be nice to have one tractor that would start even with a dead battery. 

[kpinnc 12,088]

Looks pretty good on there IMO.

 

Also did some test fitting on the remote air filter breather. No issues at all.

 

But another vertical engine part got in the way, which is the biggest reason this thing isn't finished yet... The carb throttle shaft is oriented for bottom pull on the linkage- and horizontal pulls from the left side. Gotta figure something else out on that, or order another one. Either way, the first run got set back yet again.

[kpinnc 12,088]

Another reason this thing isn't finished is because I keep adding to the pile of mods.

 

Gonna make another flavor of hydro pedal. Not a perfect match but both will be red when this is finished, and no one should be offended if I keep it in my barn. Pedal is from a Kubota. Wish I could find a mid-90s left pedal. Would be a pretty close match.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

Looks like a motocycle engine on there! Lookin' awesome!

 

Keep it up!

 

Don

[kpinnc 12,088]

Got the hydro pedal done. I need a couple hiem joints to replace the steering knuckles that I used as temporary but that can be done later. Still need a spacer or two as well. That being said, this works like a champ with no play, and gives full travel without hitting anything or binding up. One more mod kinda mostly complete!

[Bill D 1,926]

8 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Got the hydro pedal done. I need a couple hiem joints to replace the steering knuckles that I used as temporary but that can be done later. Still need a spacer or two as well. That being said, this works like a champ with no play, and gives full travel without hitting anything or binding up. One more mod kinda mostly complete!

I love it.  Does it have an automatic centering feature like Matt's kit?  Also could you do a more detailed write up on it with a parts list, more pictures and how you engineered it?  If I ever pick up another hydro I want to make something like that for it.  I hate the hand controls.

[Snoopy11 5,714]

47 minutes ago, Bill D said:

I love it.  Does it have an automatic centering feature like Matt's kit?  Also could you do a more detailed write up on it with a parts list, more pictures and how you engineered it?  If I ever pick up another hydro I want to make something like that for it.  I hate the hand controls.

I'm like a little kid in a toy store... (dunno why... it isn't even mine...)... but can't wait to hear it run!!! 

 

I love wheel horses!

 

Don

[kpinnc 12,088]

1 hour ago, Bill D said:

Does it have an automatic centering feature like Matt's kit?  Also could you do a more detailed write up on it with a parts list, more pictures and how you engineered it?  If I ever pick up another hydro I want to make something like that for it.  I hate the hand controls.

 

Yes and no, or not yet might be the appropriate answer. The factory left pedal neutral/ brake setup is still functional. I always referred to the left pedal on my hydros as my panic button. Kicking the left pedal centers the hydro and applies the brake. As far as some kind of dead man re-centering function, I planned to spring load the right pedal both directions to the center, but have not worked on that yet. Since the driver's right foot touches forward and reverse at the same time, I'm not sure how effective centering will even be yet, but will adjust as needed.

 

I can put some pics and parts on another thread once it is all up and running. I'm sure there will be some adjustments once I get to test it out. 

[ebinmaine 67,598]

26 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

Since the driver's right foot touches forward and reverse at the same time, I'm not sure how effective centering will even be yet, but will adjust as needed

I drive Moffitt forklifts at work on a fairly regular basis. 

The left foot is fore and aft. The left pedal is self centering. 

 

Here's my experience. Does it self center while you're using it? Hard to tell because your foot is doing the work. 

When does it matter?

When you lift your foot. 

ALWAYS goes to neutral. Stop. Not moving. 

 

VERY important!!!

 

I've been pondering a set-up like this for my Charger hydro project. It will definitely be sprung to self center. 

 

I'll be looking forward to seeing your outcome!

 

 

[kpinnc 12,088]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

The left foot is fore and aft. The left pedal is self centering. 

 

Here's my experience. Does it self center while you're using it? Hard to tell because your foot is doing the work. 

When does it matter?

When you lift your foot. 

ALWAYS goes to neutral. Stop. Not moving. 

 

VERY important!!!

 

While I do agree with you, and plan to incorporate some kind of centering mechanism (mainly because it came up and I like challenges)- how many other Wheel Horse hydro tractors have self centering motion control levers? My thinking may be flawed, but I believe I will keep better positive control with my stationary foot than others do with a lever that isn't in the hand even part of the time. Most folks set friction and run wide open until change is needed. The left pedal centers the MCL and applies the brake. Why does the inclusion of a foot control mean that centering is needed when it doesn't exist on standard hydros? If anything, the pedal affords more positive control, not less.

 

I also never dismount my hydro without setting the park brake. Too many hills not to do so, and I'm too old to chase a runaway down. 

Edited September 15, 2021 by kpinnc

[Lee1977 6,666]

I like my 1989 520-H with the belt release.  Don't know why they deleted it on the later model 520-H. I guess the nickel and dime counters to save a few bucks, but it couldn't have been much.

[ebinmaine 67,598]

5 hours ago, kpinnc said:

The left pedal centers the MCL and applies the brake.

 

5 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

I also never dismount my hydro without setting the park brake

 

Given those things you'll be doing just fine. 

 

 

 

But if you forget we want video....

[kpinnc 12,088]

8 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

But if you forget we want video....

 

You have my word sir!

 

...that if I bust my butt because of this pedal I promise, ummm that no one but me will know! 

[Handy Don 12,235]

15 hours ago, kpinnc said:

 

While I do agree with you, and plan to incorporate some kind of centering mechanism (mainly because it came up and I like challenges)- how many other Wheel Horse hydro tractors have self centering motion control levers? My thinking may be flawed, but I believe I will keep better positive control with my stationary foot than others do with a lever that isn't in the hand even part of the time. Most folks set friction and run wide open until change is needed. The left pedal centers the MCL and applies the brake. Why does the inclusion of a foot control mean that centering is needed when it doesn't exist on standard hydros? If anything, the pedal affords more positive control, not less.

 

I also never dismount my hydro without setting the park brake. Too many hills not to do so, and I'm too old to chase a runaway down. 

I've given a pedal motion control a lot of thought, too, but haven't made the move.

I can see the utility for quick and easy direction or speed changes, especially if combined with needing to steer and control the lift at the same time.  For "plowing the lawn" where its mostly going at the same speed (or with occasional adjustments) and steering, the lever seems plenty adequate.

 

I agree generally that if the lever doesn't self-center, why should a pedal? I think it has to do with learned behaviors in other vehicles, especially with the "two pedal" setup with a large "forward" pedal and a smaller "reverse" pedal vs. a full rocker forward/reverse pedal (as the original WH version worked).

 

Reducing speed with a non-centering two-pedal setup (in either direction) means moving one's foot to the other pedal or "feathering" the brake pedal. With a rocker pedal, you need only shift pressure from ball to heel or vice versa. With a self-centering two-pedal, you can just ease up on pressure.

 

IMHO, the rocker and self-centering two-pedal systems would be easier to learn allowing quicker response times by the operator especially in close quarters.

 

BTW, I didn't mention the system that @Ed Kennell shared--his pedal is spring loaded to full reverse and needs constant pressure for all other motion. He has trained himself on this method and uses it across all his tractors.

 

[kpinnc 12,088]

52 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

@Ed Kennell shared--his pedal is spring loaded to full reverse and needs constant pressure for all other motion. He has trained himself on this method and uses it across all his tractors.

 

 

That is similar to what I have in mind. Spring load both directions from center, set the cam friction to minimum. If you let off the pedal, the springs return at least close to center. I don't have to even bring up how many hydros need continual adjustment to compensate for creep... I'm looking to bring the hydro close to zero movement, but I don't expect zero pressue on the pedal equals zero creep 100 percent consistency.

[Handy Don 12,235]

9 minutes ago, kpinnc said:

 

That is similar to what I have in mind. Spring load both directions from center, set the cam friction to minimum. If you let off the pedal, the springs return at least close to center. I don't have to even bring up how many hydros need continual adjustment to compensate for creep... I'm looking to bring the hydro close to zero movement, but I don't expect zero pressue on the pedal equals zero creep 100 percent consistency.

Matt's version of the PMC spring loads to near center from both forward and reverse, as you are describing here. (Note as well that with pedal systems where the lever has been disconnected, the "neutral" switch that enables the starter has to be addressed.)

Ed's PMCs spring load to full reverse--release the pedal and it goes backward. He has trained himself, as you have, to use the park brake whenever he's dismounting to force the pedal to the "least creep " position and have the brake locked. I don't know if he has/uses drive belt clutches.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Handy Don

[kpinnc 12,088]

9 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

(Note as well that with pedal systems where the lever has been disconnected, the "neutral" switch that enables the starter has to be addressed.)

 

My setup keeps all of the left pedal function, so the interlocks all still work. All I changed there was reinforcement with some more steel and added bronze bushings to compensate for my Clydesdale right foot.

[Ed Kennell 38,220]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

BTW, I didn't mention the system that @Ed Kennell shared--his pedal is spring loaded to full reverse and needs constant pressure for all other motion. He has trained himself on this method and uses it across all his tractors

 

Correct Don.    And  I might add with the correct long spring it takes very little pressure on the pedal to go from full reverse(no pressure) to full forward.   I'm a slow learner and it took me about 10 minutes to master the system.    I might add ...the existing factory brake pedal is still fully functional and when pushed, it centers the motion control pedal, applies the brake, and stops the tractor.

I would never recommend this system because it is not OSHA approved and is not fool proof.   If you start your tractor, or dismount the running tractor w/o setting the brake , it will move in reverse.   But I accept responsibilty for my own actions  and would not have a tractor w/o it.