What does it do?

[Pullstart 62,912]

Shades?

[formariz 11,987]

7 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Shades?

Not shades. You were on the right track before.

[JCM 9,177]

Does it put a special edge or reveal on a window stool.        Remember I am only a Plumber, be nice to me.

[formariz 11,987]

2 minutes ago, JCM said:

Does it put a special edge or reveal on a window stool.        Remember I am only a Plumber, be nice to me.

Ok I'll be nice. It is used in the fabrication or building of a particular item. The end result of its function is nothing decorative but rather part of the structural joinery of it. Joinery lots of joinery there.

[cafoose 3,355]

Shutters?

[oliver2-44 9,761]

1. does it cut a groove for a window weight rope?

 

2. Does it cut the groove in a window frame for the glass to set in?

 

3. Does it cut the joint for window pane dividers 

[formariz 11,987]

49 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

1. does it cut a groove for a window weight rope?

 

2. Does it cut the groove in a window frame for the glass to set in?

 

3. Does it cut the joint for window pane dividers 

No to 1 and 2.  

Please clarify question #3

[8ntruck 7,016]

The one you show will cut a round bottom groove registered to one side of the work.  The 'catalog' picture seems to show two other shapes.  

 

Does it cut one half of the rail and stile joints on the window frame?

 

I've removed the glass, stripped, and refinished some of the windows in my 100 year old house and didn't run across anything with shapes like this.

[formariz 11,987]

26 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

Does it cut one half of the rail and stile joints on the window frame?

Please clarify this question

[8ntruck 7,016]

Maybe I got the terms incorrect.  Most windows have some fancy shape around the window pains.  Quite often the horizontal frame pieces are connected to the vertical frames with a mortice and tennon sort of joint, with the tennon being on the horizontal frame piece.  The vertical frame pieces are molded the full length and the horizontal frame pieces have an inverse shape in the shoulder of the tennon to mate with the contour on the vertical frame piece.

 

Does this plane cut the inverse shape in the tennon shoulder?

[JoeM 7,874]

Window guide groove cutter?

[formariz 11,987]

9 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

Maybe I got the terms incorrect.  Most windows have some fancy shape around the window pains.  Quite often the horizontal frame pieces are connected to the vertical frames with a mortice and tennon sort of joint, with the tennon being on the horizontal frame piece.  The vertical frame pieces are molded the full length and the horizontal frame pieces have an inverse shape in the shoulder of the tennon to mate with the contour on the vertical frame piece.

 

Does this plane cut the inverse shape in the tennon shoulder?

You got it. It is called a Double Coping  Plane. It is used to make all the copings on the sash rails prior to molding them in a production like manner. That joint can either be coped this way or mitered the coping method being the preferred  one. Coping only involves one side where the mitering is more involved the rails and stiles both having to be mitered. It is a tedious , precise and labor intensive to miter them both. Coping is also better since since  in installing crown molding it disguises inevitable wood movement.

You knew exactly how a sash is constructed which helped you figure it out. There are other sash coping planes which look "normal" but this type is easier to control and use due to the other full size half that acts as a stop, handle . The fact that the full side of the "actual" plane rides on the rails's tenons it stays in place as it planes. They need to be extremely sharp since they are cutting end grain. They are used prior to sticking (planing) molding on the rails. Any minor tear out from coping is eliminated when sticking face.

They are extremely rare probably because they were expensive in comparison to regular type. In my lifetime up to now I have only come across four of them which unfortunately I only own one of those.

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by formariz

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

I have only heard of a coping saw, is that similar to a tenon saw to work on this kind of joint?

Its amazing how tools were developed to do specific tasks and are now lost to time and uPVC.

Mick 

[formariz 11,987]

3 minutes ago, Mickwhitt said:

I have only heard of a coping saw, is that similar to a tenon saw to work on this kind of joint?

Its amazing how tools were developed to do specific tasks and are now lost to time and uPVC.

Mick 

There are countless of amazing tools that basically no one knows about anymore. Gone are not only the tools but the knowledge associated with them.

Correct a tenon saw would also be used in this joint. An odd thing about tenon saws is although they are really used for ripping, they are sharpened as crosscut saws. I modify mine to the correct teeth configuration. 

[JCM 9,177]

7 minutes ago, formariz said:

There are countless of amazing tools that basically no one knows about anymore. Gone are not only the tools but the knowledge associated with them

Sad     

[CCW 1,295]

@formariz  Thanks for this thread.  Found it fascinating.

[formariz 11,987]

30 minutes ago, CCW said:

@formariz  Thanks for this thread.  Found it fascinating.

Thank you I appreciate that.  Many times I hope I am not burning you guys up with this stuff. Its not always easy to find interest in this kind of stuff, perhaps on of the main reasons why so much has been lost.

[Pullstart 62,912]

Huh.  Any chance to see the finished piece, or it assembled on a window?  

[formariz 11,987]

17 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Huh.  Any chance to see the finished piece, or it assembled on a window?  

Give me a little time, I’ll do one joint. 

[Stormin 9,981]

 I've never been one for wood working. For me it's mainly felling trees, logging and chucking it in the stove. But I find your posts and your work fascinating  and educational.

   Keep them coming.

 

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,795]

I grew up learning quite a bit about the old tools, but most of it was way more primitive(like routing with a scrap piece of sawblade, a file and a scrap wood handle) that the stuff on offer here,...great to see the insights and fill in some knowledge!

[formariz 11,987]

28 minutes ago, Wheel Horse 3D said:

I grew up learning quite a bit about the old tools, but most of it was way more primitive(like routing with a scrap piece of sawblade, a file and a scrap wood handle) that the stuff on offer here,...great to see the insights and fill in some knowledge!

Not so primitive. It is still done at least here. Its called scratch beading. There is actually a Stanley 66 Beader that does just that. 

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,795]

4 minutes ago, formariz said:

Not so primitive. It is still done at least here. Its called scratch beading. There is actually a Stanley 66 Beader that does just that. 

LOL ok well then spring pole lathes and scroll saws! lol..amazing what could be done with a little ingenuity!

 

Edited May 4, 2021 by Wheel Horse 3D

[formariz 11,987]

3 hours ago, Wheel Horse 3D said:

spring pole lathes

I had a family member now long deceased who was master gunstock maker and carver. To watch him turn gunstocks in offset centers using a treadle lathe activated by a long spring pole attached to the ceiling was an experience no one would ever forget. Too bad there were no cameras then. Sadly none of the children cared or followed his art. I am fortunate to have inherited some of his tools and be able to watch him and observe his work after. He was probably the biggest influence in my work particularly making and carving yokes and plane making. He is in my thoughts every day.

Edited May 4, 2021 by formariz

[DennisThornton 4,769]

2 hours ago, formariz said:

I had a family member now long deceased who was master gunstock maker and carver. To watch him turn gunstocks in offset centers using a treadle lathe activated by a long spring pole attached to the ceiling was an experience no one would ever forget. Too bad there were no cameras then. Sadly none of the children cared or followed his art. I am fortunate to have inherited some of his tools and be able to watch him and observe his work after. He was probably the biggest influence in my work particularly making and carving yokes and plane making. He is in my thoughts every day.

I would have LOVED to have seen that!  Been there and able to listen and learn!  Spend time with someone familiar with the "old ways"!

Very fortunate for you to have known him!  Fortunate for us that you share some of your knowledge and memories!

Edited May 4, 2021 by DennisThornton
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