Todays Auction Haul

[Ed Kennell 38,718]

Nope, no tractors.    But I came home with this and had enough left from a Franklin to buy lunch.

 

HB 1500lb ATV lift     I added 4X4 blocks

 

 

Hand cart with cast wheels w/ zerks.

 

Swivel casters for my sons rolling gazebo hot tub cover.....In the design stage.

 

Bimini top for the crabbing boat.

 

Bucket of joist hangers for the gazebo and my new tractor shed.

 

 

Oh, I noticed the hub/axle lock on this tractor while I had it up on the lift.      Another option for those bar key,hub,axle problems.

 

[elcamino/wheelhorse 9,355]

What you have left over you can put in the buckets for the BS WH trailer sale.

[Achto 27,821]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

 

I really dislike it when people through bolt the hub to the axle.

 

The motorcycle lift works great for working 's. I built this to gain an extra height on my lift. It only sticks out past the frame rails by 1/2" on each side. This allows the whole tractor to be assembled while it is on the lift. The tabs on top fit inside the frame so that the tractor can't slide off side to side. The tabs on the bottom keep it from sliding off from the lift.

[JoeM 7,874]

37 minutes ago, Achto said:

I really dislike it when people through bolt the hub to the axle

For sure!

But at least you can see that, I had one the guy used JB weld to fix the keyway on the shaft. Would have worked but he got it under the thrust washer and against the seal. When it hardeded it wiped out the seal. He didn't say anything other then it needs a rear seal and took my first offer. Turns out, if he would have been a little more careful not to ruin the seal, it may have worked. I had to use the big puller to get if off. Sure does add a bunch of work to fix them right.  

Been watching auctions too. Some things just bring crazy money. I wonder sometimes.

Edited April 28, 2021 by JoeM

[roadapples 6,983]

@Achto What are the cons of the bolt through the axle..   

[ebinmaine 68,482]

21 minutes ago, roadapples said:

@Achto What are the cons of the bolt through the axle..   

I can tell you from the experience of seeing the ones in the Charger hydro I got from @Stepney Spenser that because the bolts are loose.... They get more loose. Eventually rendering the whole set-up garbage. 

[WHX?? 49,190]

1 hour ago, Achto said:

when people through bolt the hub to the axle.

Lol... what tractor was it Dan we had come thru that had multiple bolts thru axle?!?!? Whole thing looked like swiss cheese! 

You know I hate auctions Ed .... now @pullstart he loves them too....

[Ed Kennell 38,718]

1 hour ago, Achto said:

I really dislike it when people through bolt the hub to the axle.

I've seen some really ugly repairs Dan,  but this one appears to have worked.   If this is done correctly by drilling and reaming for a body bolt the 1/2" bolt at two places has around 10 times  times the shear of the  factory key.

[Achto 27,821]

50 minutes ago, roadapples said:

 

@Achto What are the cons of the bolt through the axle..   

 

 

Like @ebinmaine said most times it only works temporarily. Unlike a roll pin, a bolt does not keep constant pressure all around the inside the hole. It also can not compress the hub on to the axle.  A little slop keeps growing and growing until the hole is slopped out to an oval shape.

 

7 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

 If this is done correctly by drilling and reaming for a body bolt the 1/2" bolt at two places has around 10 times  times the shear of the  factory key.

 

If you were to slit the hub on one side 90 degrees to the bolt hole so that it was able to be crimped on to the axle. I believe that it would be a more effective permanent fix.

 

[Ed Kennell 38,718]

If we are talking about a worn out hub that is no longer a good  sliding fit to the axle,  I agree, no bolting or  new key would  work.   A to Z does sell new two piece conical compression hubs that will compress down to fit a undersize axle.

But, with a good fitting hub and axle I believe a properly installed body bolt or a taper pin in a reamed hole with the parts assembled  is a stronger connection than a woodruff key.

This hub/axle connection is probably the weakest link in the Wheel Horse drive train and I do believe there are better ways to make a stronger connection .

Here is an example.

After using the standard thru the center  pinning of large butteryly valve discs to 2-6" shafts  for 30 years, we discovered we could double the shear area of the pin and double the strength of the connection by simply moving the pin to the edge of the shaft.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Ed Kennell

[JoeM 7,874]

As always interested in mechanical stuff but not seeing to many pin on applications. Mostly keyed. I looked at the side pin application and it can be interesting. Found this pick that kind of explains why.  

 

 

When I think about the WH issue with hubs. I just think the designers wanted a strong set up that was economical to produce / assemble, and long lasting. Thinking mission accomplished. 20 or more years of life....not to bad. 

[ebinmaine 68,482]

7 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

, with a good fitting hub and axle I believe a properly installed body bolt or a taper pin in a reamed hole with the parts assembled  is a stronger connection than a woodruff key

 

I'd agree with this ^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

 

I'd like to clarify that in my particular case I was talking about  installing a standard issue fully threaded bolt.

No reaming. Incorrect sizing. Literally no pinch anywhere available to be done.

Yes it holds the hub on the axle in literal form.

Probably was already a few thousands loose the day it was installed. That can only go downhill from there.

[Achto 27,821]

I will agree that a wedge bolt would hold the hub on and be a permanent fix but a standard through bolt will egg the hole out over time because nothing is tight or wedged together. Even with a brand new hub and a brand new axle. If you measure with a micrometer you will find that it is impossible to put a 1" shaft in a 1" hole. Either the shaft has to be slightly under sized or the hole has to be slightly over sized. For an example .001" difference between the hole and the shaft would be considered a press fit . Any slip fit will have more clearance, over time this clearance will grow unless the 2 parts are crimped together some how. Be that a wedge pin, set screw, or use of a roll pin to wedge the trough hole tight. I believe that if you decide to drill a through hole for the hub and you don't have the tools to create a hole for a wedge pin, you would be better off to use a heavy roll pin instead of a bolt.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Achto

[squonk 41,442]

12 hours ago, elcamino/wheelhorse said:

What you have left over you can put in the buckets for the BS WH trailer sale.

Always good deals goin down at Ed's! 

[Ed Kennell 38,718]

2 hours ago, JoeM said:

When I think about the WH issue with hubs. I just think the designers wanted a strong set up that was economical to produce / assemble, and long lasting. Thinking mission accomplished. 20 or more years of life....not to bad

                          I agree Joe, the origonal WH design with one set screw on a woodruff key was economical and not too bad .    But IMO there are much better designs.   The second set screw that was added later helped, but  beileve a square key the full length of the hub bore is a much better design..     With the full length keyway all ready in the hub for the woodruff, the cost to mill a full length keyway in the axle could not have been much more that the woodruff slot and may have actually been less expensive because a standard end mill would be used rather than an expensive flycutter.

[WHX?? 49,190]

I generally double setscrew on all my girls that are going to see heavy work. The thing with our hubs is they are usually going to brown weld on and they never come loose. 

Since we preach anti seize on them now they don't brown weld. I find that the set screws loosen on hubs that have been off & anti seized  so regular checking of them is required. 

Ever notice hubs problems worst on axle seals that were leaking? 

Ed nailed it on full length. 

[JoeM 7,874]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

full length keyway

Yep, they done it. The XI's are square keyed. I have messed with a half dozen, some up to 1500 hours and only seen one loose. Definitely an improvement and it will not compromise the shaft. 

Something I do when I have a hub off is to use oversized key. (mak-a-key) +.002. Same old seal issue though, I started only use seals from parts and more, best quality. 

 

I need to know the location of Ed's BS trailer of parts, the one Squonk refers to. Sounds like some juicy buys! $$ Coordinates please! Google earth photo with red outline too. 

 

1 hour ago, WHX24 said:

Since we preach anti seize on them

Yep, think about it, that stuff makes things come apart. I just wipe off the shaft and hub, new hardware, and put them together dry. No buffing or sanding. 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by JoeM

[Pullstart 63,109]

When you’re adapting a David Bradley hub to a Wheel Horse axle... sometimes you need to do what you need to do.  Luckily, it’s just a show cruiser for the most part..

 

 

[Ed Kennell 38,718]

Installed the $2.00 auction bimini top.    Had to make two 3,4" SST support rods that fit in existing rod holders.

[squonk 41,442]

On 4/29/2021 at 10:10 AM, JoeM said:

 

 

 

I need to know the location of Ed's BS trailer of parts, the one Squonk refers to. Sounds like some juicy buys! $$ Coordinates please! Google earth photo with red outline too. 

 

 

 

Joe, when you drive in the show grounds entrance just keep driving past my corner until the road loops. The big bldg with the bathrooms is on the left and Ed Dog sets up on the knoll to the right against the woods.