Truck dissappointment F-250 diesel

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

   I mentioned this truck in a few places like old trucks, what did you do today, and here is a brief story about the truck. She is a decently optioned F-250 diesel, probably the model that became the first Power stroke. This truck has no turbo.  It was a 2 owner father and son. Having been sitting for 3-5 years, it was not actively for sale, but i was working next door and saw it sitting behind a fence and could make out a for sale sign fro the roof sitting on the seat of the truck.  The guy i was helping introduced us, and it was agreed that I could tinker a bit and see if it would start.

  I knew nothing about Ford diesels, and the 7.3 had room to work under the hood. This 1981 is a single cab 2WD , straight and clean, not rusted out great paint, with just a bit of rusted area above the rear wheel arches.. in other words a great candidate for a restoration.

 I was able to figure out that the 444 Diesel has about three things it needs to work. The mechanical lift pump needs to fill the fuel circuit. got that solved the first day by jumping the starter solenoid. nothing going on at the also mechanical injector pump, and we read up on that . A seventeen dollar ignition slide switch opened the fuel solenoid switch and then we started bleeding the injectors but ran out of batteries. I went back yesterday with three fully charged batteries and put the two huge ones from my Cummins in the truck and fed the third car battery into the loop.The owner was there and i had all the lines cracked , but one injector must have been open as the line did not squirt fuel. We fiddled for a while and it worked better to crack the lines two at a time. Even at eighty degrees, it needed ether, and when it finally fired, it sounded like Satan's forge. he kept it running by various manipulations of the throttle, but the hammering never quit. I just wonder if the truck was driven for a time with that bad injector being dry for some reason, and not lubricating the upper piston, scarring the cylinder wall, and messing up the connecting rod.

 I am not really mad at the guy because he didn't tell me everything he knew, or should have known. i was the one who initiated this, and had a ball diagnosing a problem on an engine I knew nothing about. His ask was only a thousand, and I guess he figured that even parted out the truck is worth more than that. The trouble is, a Ford diesel is 3K used and a Cummins conversion is 5K. every farm boy out there would go crazy for the end product if it were 4WD. Even if a guy bought this truck and had a CumminsFord conversion professionally done for seven thousand or so, it would be a dandy of a truck.

  What do you guys think??

[Stormin 9,981]

What would it cost for an engine rebuild? You evidently know something about diesels and could you do the job yourself?

[squonk 41,164]

I'm not a Ford fan at all. But for what it's  worth I have been told the early Ford 7.3 were Navistar's?  Also they were basically boat anchors and with out a Turbo slow slow slow. I used to work on Renault diesels. Non Turbo's were 40 hp and you could walk faster. Turbo's were 75 HP and blew up all the time. 

[Pullstart 62,922]

Are you asking if you should still buy it?  It doesn’t sound like there’s a sure fire outcome.

[Herder 2,354]

1981! I am not sure it's a 7.3.  It could be a 6.9

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

I called a Ford dealer and their computers could not give me an answer 6.9 or 7.3. i had a picture of the VIN and jasper quoted a rebuilt engine for $6436 plus 1800 core. The gamble would be if the core motor had any external cracks.  I would not do it to make money, but a guy who wanted a classic single cab 250 with good bones, it could be a nice one. the chances of an old 2WD vs. 4WD would keep going are much better on a 2WD that is 30 years old  This truck market is gonna change. I would not want a new diesel with all the urea pollution stuff.

 My prediction is that a truck like this one with a Jasper motor will be a value if not right now, then later.  If you look up the stats on the first power strokes with a turbo, I don't think they were all that different. It was basically this engine with bigger injectors to match the turbo.The 7.3 power Strokes kept getting more HP as time went on. Then the disaster with the 6.0

  There are some other versions by international/Navistar. There are some southern boys who know how to beef up those engine versions and make them much more bulletproof . Those trucks are in the 20+ thousand range for an entire truck. That's just some of the stuff that I have found.

Chevys and Dodge twelve years newer than mine have much more rust and the body metal is paper thin. I'm gonna fix what i have and be happy. i have a 3500 Dodge C+C with a blown axle bearing that was all my fault. i can hire a mobile service that has a precision process to cut the axle back and weld on a new end /bearing race. These people routinely  go out for stuff like linesman's trucks and even the heavy stuff. 

  Lets put it this way. If i had a grandson who i wanted to spoil, we would heat up the shop and do it this winter. i would be the cool grandpa

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

40 minutes ago, Herder said:

1981! I am not sure it's a 7.3.  It could be a 6.9

 It's a 7.3 Jasper knew from the VIN, but Ford had no clue from the parts counter guy.

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

2 hours ago, squonk said:

I'm not a Ford fan at all. But for what it's  worth I have been told the early Ford 7.3 were Navistar's?  Also they were basically boat anchors and with out a Turbo slow slow slow. I used to work on Renault diesels. Non Turbo's were 40 hp and you could walk faster. Turbo's were 75 HP and blew up all the time. 

   i am very impressed having looked underneath that Ford. They got the chassis right----- heavy duty.  Price a used Power Stroke and a used Cummins 3 grand vs. 5 tells the story. Look at the heavy Diesel market . There used to be a few v block Diesels, but probably all of them are straight six..   Some guys have put the Cummins into a ford chassis, but that is somewhere in the high teens. I still like the Wakeshaw Diesel in my dad's  Oliver super 88. Just so cool.

Edited April 28, 2021 by ohiofarmer

[Herder 2,354]

1 hour ago, ohiofarmer said:

 It's a 7.3 Jasper knew from the VIN, but Ford had no clue from the parts counter guy.

Crap!!

[Stepney 2,325]

I own a 1985 Ford truck of the same body, and can tell you that if even a few body panels are in good knick and it has some good interior parts, she's worth well over 1000 here in Maine. 

And there are plenty of those old Diesel engines in rusted out junkers that still run well.. Im sure a donor could be located with some time. They're a great truck.

I'm not a diesel buff myself and personally I'd just slap a 300-I6 in there with a 5 speed and call it a day. If the body is really that good it would make a great long term piece to own.

In that era I think it would indeed be the old 6.9.

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

   

8 hours ago, Stepney said:

I own a 1985 Ford truck of the same body, and can tell you that if even a few body panels are in good knick and it has some good interior parts, she's worth well over 1000 here in Maine. 

And there are plenty of those old Diesel engines in rusted out junkers that still run well.. Im sure a donor could be located with some time. They're a great truck.

I'm not a diesel buff myself and personally I'd just slap a 300-I6 in there with a 5 speed and call it a day. If the body is really that good it would make a great long term piece to own.

In that era I think it would indeed be the old 6.9.

     The Ford dealer told me that some of the 81's had 6.9 and some had 7.3. Again, Jasper knows which is which from the VIN, but Ford does not know with their updated computers. There is not a body panel or door that is not nice. Some repairable rust at the top of the rear wheel arch and the rest of the bed is real nice. Bed has a bed liner and covered with a cap. Perfect tailgate

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,314]

An 81? With a diesel? I’ve owned several of the old 6.9/7.3 IDI trucks over the years, and I was always led to believe that the 6.9 was first introduced for the 83 model year, and was replaced by the 7.3 in 88. Both are great engines, you’re not gonna set any speed or economy records with them by today’s standards, but they have the grunt to move just about anything you hook behind them, all while being cheaper and easier to repair than the newer PowerStroke, which took the place of the IDI in 94. The 7.3 PowerStroke is a whole different animal, sharing only its displacement with its predecessor. The PowerStroke was a direct injection engine, which utilized a HUEI system, using oil under high pressure to fire the injectors and was electronically controlled, whereas the earlier 7.3 IDI and 6.9 used a mechanical Stanadyne DB-2 injection pump. 
 

Here is a link to the history and usage of the IDI engines for anyone who is interested 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Harvester_IDI

 

And here is the write up on the later PowerStroke

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Power_Stroke_engine#7.3_Power_Stroke

 

 

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

Bryce, you are right about 1991. i keep getting confused about those two years for some reason, probably because I am thinking the eighties are 30 years ago instead of forty. Anyway, its a non turbo IDI. My final thoughts are that someone could repair that bed and probably get their investment back. The wild card would be the transmission and whether or not it was in good shape. Maybe single cab 2WD trucks are not today's market, but at least some of us wish the simpler trucks were still available.My  single cab dodge Cummins 3500  still has window cranks because it is just about being a work truck

[ClassicTractorProfessor 5,314]

By 91 it would have most definitely been a 7.3. I’d buy it in a heartbeat if I had the chance. Our small wrecker at work is a 90 model with the 7.3. It’s slow and tops out at about 55, but I’ve towed many things I probably shouldn’t have with no trouble at all. 
 

I too like the simpler trucks, I look for them with rubber mats vinyl seats and manual locks/windows whenever I buy one

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

I have been thinking about this truck off and on. The fact that there is a hammering of one cylinder is something I attributed to a stuck injector and no lubricating fuel getting to the cylinder, but I got to thinking about how the fuel is delivered and so forth. On these early models, the high pressure fuel pump delivers a slug of fuel that is a measured amount because of the pump piston size. In normal operation, there is a pressure build up and the mechanical fuel injector opens and sprays fuel into the piston. When that slug of fuel loses pressure as the pump rotates, the  injector quits spraying fuel. Excess fuel is returned to the tank in preparation for the next cycle. I did notice that when priming /bleeding the fuel lines that all of the lines would spit fuel when cracked loose except one. that line is on the number 6 cylinder. With no fuel spitting, I am thinking the injector could be stuck open.

  But what if the injector is hanging open?? Instead of the bit of fuel being delivered to the cylinder in a defined amount,by the limits of the injector opening for a short burst, the injector is always open and the pump puts more fuel in the cylinder and that fuel is not the right mix to ignite, So the problem this could cause is so much fuel that it might hydrolock., or so i am thinking. I did a search on hydrolock in diesels, and indeed, open injectors can cause it..

  So I was thinking that if I cracked the fuel injector line on the dead cylinder, the excess fuel would clear out of the cylinder and maybe that knock would stop. If the knock did not stop, then maybe there is a bent or broken rod. There is a procedure to suck the excess fuel from the cylinder, and if the knocking was no longer there, them maybe all the engine needs is a new fuel injector on the non-firing cylinder .

  You just don't know what you don't know.. There is no way to tell how long or at what rpm this truck was driven. If it was run too long, the engine might not qualify for a core exchange.

 

[EricF 589]

On 4/28/2021 at 4:25 PM, Stepney said:

I'd just slap a 300-I6 in there with a 5 speed and call it a day.

I was going to say the same thing. 

A Ford 300 I-6 with proper gearing is a hell of a worker. Heck, it's been nicknamed an "honorary diesel" for the way it's put together and for it's low-end grunt. Hardly anything else like it in the world of gas engines.

 

I was never a fan of those Navistar V-8s. They'd get you there... eventually... and with more revving-up than a diesel really ought to. Nothing at all like a "proper" Navistar DT-series inline 6.

 

To be fair, the Ford/Navistar V8 diesels were a decent exercise in reducing rotating mass to get more power without having to carry as much of penalty of mass-induced loss. But there was a lot of refining left to do.

 

But heavy-iron I-6's are still a tough act to beat in the modern age. Wife and I had to move most of our household things from storage on the East Coast myself; we rented two of the biggest straight trucks Penske offered to do the job. Both 26-foot Navistars -- powered by Cummins ISB's -- same engine series as a Cummins-Dodge pickup. There's a reason the Cummins commands the higher price tag.

[Stepney 2,325]

14 minutes ago, EricF said:

I was going to say the same thing. 

A Ford 300 I-6 with proper gearing is a hell of a worker. Heck, it's been nicknamed an "honorary diesel" for the way it's put together and for it's low-end grunt. Hardly anything else like it in the world of gas engines.

 

I was never a fan of those Navistar V-8s. They'd get you there... eventually... and with more revving-up than a diesel really ought to. Nothing at all like a "proper" Navistar DT-series inline 6.

 

To be fair, the Ford/Navistar V8 diesels were a decent exercise in reducing rotating mass to get more power without having to carry as much of penalty of mass-induced loss. But there was a lot of refining left to do.

 

But heavy-iron I-6's are still a tough act to beat in the modern age. Wife and I had to move most of our household things from storage on the East Coast myself; we rented two of the biggest straight trucks Penske offered to do the job. Both 26-foot Navistars -- powered by Cummins ISB's -- same engine series as a Cummins-Dodge pickup. There's a reason the Cummins commands the higher price tag.

My 300 has just about no right to run at all.. cracked skirt on number 1, swallowed a valve on number 5 and punched a hole in the crown.. welded a coil over it two years ago.

I'm about tempted to pull 1 and 5 and block the oil galleys off, remove the rockers.. they just move now, the plugs dont even warm up.

Intake cracked in a few places, gobbed up with flex seal.

Sure it skips a bit and aint as smooth as it ought to be.. still took me on a 300 mile trip this weekend at 22mpg highway with next to no trouble at all..

Trouble being a perhaps 30 year old fan belt flying off... but, it has two of those anyway..

Gotta love the old iron..

[ohiofarmer 3,276]

On 4/29/2021 at 4:22 PM, ClassicTractorProfessor said:

By 91 it would have most definitely been a 7.3. I’d buy it in a heartbeat if I had the chance. Our small wrecker at work is a 90 model with the 7.3. It’s slow and tops out at about 55, but I’ve towed many things I probably shouldn’t have with no trouble at all. 
 

I too like the simpler trucks, I look for them with rubber mats vinyl seats and manual locks/windows whenever I buy one

  It is still here. I was thinking that if it is indeed the rod knock, just disconnect the injector and remove the rod if bent or broken and run the thing.  I know of a guy who ran a v-8 gasoline engine like that for years.  There is an awful lot of truck there for a thousand dollars, even without the engine,  So if you want the thing, PM me.