Rebuild WH 5091 8 speed - anybody rebuild ?

[oliver2-44 9,761]

In the top left corner of this picture is the reverser gear and a short shaft.  I don't see that short shaft in your picture, do you have it?

[Wellingtontx 69]

Is this the parts ?  I thought that rod was through another gear though.

[Wellingtontx 69]

Is this part a problem ?  Looks kind of chewed up down by the other gear -  wondering if it should be replaced or will it work ?  

[oliver2-44 9,761]

25 minutes ago, Wellingtontx said:

Is this the parts ?  I thought that rod was through another gear though.

You should have a short shaft for the reverser gear shown in your upper picture.

AND

You should have a short shaft for that second gear which you appear to have.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Wellingtontx said:

Is this part a problem ?  Looks kind of chewed up down by the other gear -  wondering if it should be replaced or will it work ?  

Yes that gear looks rough. I'll let @stevasaurus comment, but I lean towards saying get a replacement.

[oliver2-44 9,761]

Your pinions look like there are some nicks" or small gouges in the top edge.  I think they will be fine to use, but smooth the top/side edges of the teeth with a file as you clean them.

In this picture You can see the small gouges on the bottom cent and bottom left pinion.

 

Also remember to check if you have that thrust washer we commented on earlier.

Edited May 1, 2021 by oliver2-44

[Oldskool 6,644]

Just now, oliver2-44 said:

Yes that gear looks rough. I'll let @stevasaurus comment, but I lean towards saying get a replacement.

I agree. I would find a different one.

[Wellingtontx 69]

In the original parts manual, is that part 3-35/Toro Part 5175 ?

 

Anybody know a source for used ones ?  If that is the correct part, looks like new ones are EXPENSIVE.  lol. 

 

======

 

Oliver - that little reverse shaft may still be in the case as I did not think it came out.....may be totally wrong and I am still missing a piece

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Yes, that is #35 part # 5175. I would replace that part. 1st we should make a list and then call A-Z or see if someone has an 8 speed to part out.  New gears are much dinaro...try to find good used.

   That reverse idler shaft is probably still in the case half, that is why I was asking for pictures of the 2 halves inside.  It pulls right out, but keep it with the reverse gear.

   If you open the hi/low shift fork thingy, it has 1 detente ball and spring in it.  

   Is that sand we are looking at on all of your transmission parts?  I see it in your bearings also.  The bottom/center bearing looks like it needs to be replaced.  I think those ball bearings need to go also.

 

This bottom/center bearing is a cap bearing.  It is one piece and you can use a socket (close to the diameter o the bearing) to tap it out.  It is the closed bearing for the cluster gear shaft #15 part #1529.  The #1529 equates to KOYO or Torrington # M-12121.  Add to list.  Also add (2) #1533 ball bearings.

   I ground down the end of a carriage bolt to pry those out.  A bearing puller is the right tool...you may be able to rent or borrow one from a NAPA or Auto Parts dealer.

 

 

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

How big is the ball in this picture?  If it is larger then 1/4" dia, it does not go in this transmission.  Might go into a musket rifle.

[Wellingtontx 69]

Steve - the musket ball comment just caused me to spit ice tea all over my screen.  LOL  Best comment all day,  Needed that one,  Yes, larger than 1/4inch....did not know whether that went on top of a shifter or not.  

 

Yes, sand and dirt etc all in parts.   The transmission parts were in a bucket in an open shed apparently when I picked them up.  

 

I have some of the parts in the parts washer right now so hopefully I will get some out this afternoon and start polishing them up. 

 

On everyones recommendation, I will clean the cases and start with new bearings all the way around.  When we all get through with this one (note the "we") I want it to last another 20 years.

 

Duke

Edited May 1, 2021 by Wellingtontx

[Wellingtontx 69]

[Wellingtontx 69]

[Wellingtontx 69]

The case has not made it into parts wash yet.  Filthy and grit filled. 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Yes, I see your reverse idler shaft in that case half !!  Sorry about the iced tea thing.    Is that ball threaded??  It just may be for the end of your shifter. 

   I think it is a good idea to replace all bearings with all of that sand in them.  I'll make a full list for you to order for that.  It's worth it, if you are going to keep this horse.  It would not be too bad if those ball bearing weren't so costly.  Should be under $250 for all bearings, seals and gasket.  

[Wellingtontx 69]

[Wellingtontx 69]

Anybody see any issue with these wear marks ?  
 

Has a pretty good groove that won’t polish out.  

[Oldskool 6,644]

Im no expert but I would think that those are usable. File off any burrs there are. There is a flat side on them anyways. I believe to help them glide better thru their passage. The detent grooves seem good. I would use them.

[Oldskool 6,644]

Maybe give them a wipe with oil and try them in the case to see how much slop there is.

[Wellingtontx 69]

Good idea on test fit.

[oliver2-44 9,761]

I agree, those grooves should be fine on that shift rail

Edited May 2, 2021 by oliver2-44

[Wellingtontx 69]

What a relief on the shift rails - that’s good news.  
 

 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Shift rails are just fine.  Yours do not have the flat along the rail it appears.  You have the newest version of those.  What is important...notice the grooves are equal distant apart on that shaft.  They are not equal distant on the other shift rail.  Notice the shift rails with the forks attached (in the picture below).  The shift rail on the left, the groves are NOT equal distant...part #49...this is the rear shift rail.  The shift rail on the right ..groves are equal distant...part  #48...this is the front shift rail.  The front shift rail goes into the hole closest to the front of the transmission.

   Now notice the shift forks...they are the same part number...part #50.  They are just turned around on their correct shift rail.  Use this image to put your shift rails back together so they look like this.  I find that if I put in a finishing nail to line up the holes, it is easier to get the roll pin started.  

 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

Here is a list of bearings and seals and gasket for your #5091 transmission.  

Bearings::

Outer axle needle bearing (2)  WH#1526...KOYO B-1816

Differential Carriage ball bearings (2)  WH# 1533

 

11/44 toothed gear bearing (mushroom gear) (closed) (2)  WH#1532...KOYO M-16121

 

Brake Shaft Bearing (1)  WH#1523...KOYO B-1210

Cluster gear Shaft bearing (closed)  (1)  WH# 1529...KOYO M-12121

 

Input Shaft Bearing (1) WH#1542...KOYO B-107

Input Shaft Bearing (closed) (1)  WH#1531...KOYO M-10121

 

Seals::

Axle Seals (2)  WH#100443...SKF 11050

Brake Shaft Seal (1) WH#100441...SKF 7410

Input Shaft Seal (1)  WH#100442...SKF 6105

 

Case half Gasket...#3912

 

Usually, the inside spline Shaft bearing is OK...if not, it is WH#1518...KOYO B-108  part #34 on parts list.

 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

I think this gear is going to be OK.

Notice the top horizontal and down arrows...these show that gear.  Notice the lower 2 horizontal arrows, they show this transmission to be in 1st gear.  The 1st and reverse fork gear is just below the down arrow.  Notice, what would be the bad part of your gear is still showing.  This is why you do not have to change out the gear.  Nothing slides up high enough to use the bad part.    So, unless a few of your pinion gears are suspect (in the differential) you do not have to replace any gears.

 

[Wellingtontx 69]

Steve that is great news !!!  Cannot thank you enough.  Everyone on this forum is truly unbelievable.   If I didn’t have a trip with my father already planned I would drop everything and come up to the big show to see what everything is about.    

 

I will get the parts list ordered tomorrow.  I got up this morning and left Dallas at 6:00 am to drive 5.5 hours to Lubbock to see my two sons who are in school with the oldest having his graduation ring ceremony this evening or I would be able to send pics of pinion gears that I have cleaned up.  
 

I will post those tomorrow night when I get back.