You Never Forget The First One-Carb Info Needed

[Pullstart 62,912]

There are numerous configurations of the throttle and choke arms on the aftermarket ones.  Some are backwards, then some are bass ackwards.  On the correct orientation ones I’ve received, and the ones I’ve cut the arm off and re-welded, they’ve all been pretty decent.

[ranger 1,750]

15 hours ago, Bentoolong said:

I have an aftermarket ordered but I realize now that there is no ball connector for the throttle shaft. I asked online and they said there is a wire connector(?). 

 

How do people connect the throttle?

 

I may just get an overhaul kit ordered as well in case.

 

Mark

I’ve just fitted a China carb to my C121. I took the short link rod off and replaced it with a piece of rod bent to match the “ball” jointed original. The replacement carb didn’t have the ball on the throttle arm. I cross drilled the link for split pins. The “new” carb throttle spindle has way more play in it than the original, (1979), but seems to run ok, I’ll rebuild the original when I find the time. What I would suggest is, if you make a link rod, make it a little  longer than the original,  and put a slight bend in it, you can then “tweak” it to get the length spot on, the original ball joint is threaded for adjustment.

[seuadr 488]

hey i recognize that machine! i saw it a couple days before you picked it up when @ACman was showing me around. Looks like a project for sure, but a solid machine!

[Bentoolong 94]

1 hour ago, seuadr said:

hey i recognize that machine! i saw it a couple days before you picked it up when @ACman was showing me around. Looks like a project for sure, but a solid machine!

That's it. When I saw it I got a tractor rescue response and I knew what I had to do.

 

It is a solid machine. It won't win any beauty contests but that isn't what these tractors are for.

 

I changed my mind and ordered a carb overhaul kit instead of a aftermarket carb.

 

These kits come with a float baffle gasket but my carb currently doesn't have one. I'm not even sure how its held in place. I've had a small carb apart before and I know where it goes but in this case, I'm not sure how it would be held in place. I know it goes in the upper part of the float bowl before the float gets installed.

 

Is this a case of vendors just sending more than the required amount of parts to accommodate variations in carbs. I think some of these engines (K241) had Carter products and some had Walbro.

 

Bentoolong

 

 

[pfrederi 17,741]

Walbro carbs do not use the slash shield....Don't know why

[Bentoolong 94]

So I'm still not sure if I should attempt to use this. How can I ID the carb I have? Could someone take a look at the pics above and advise? I'm not ruling out that my carb needs one but a PO just didn't use it.

Thanks

[pfrederi 17,741]

8 minutes ago, Bentoolong said:

So I'm still not sure if I should attempt to use this. How can I ID the carb I have? Could someone take a look at the pics above and advise? I'm not ruling out that my carb needs one but a PO just didn't use it.

Thanks

Looking at your carb with High speed needle on top it is a kohler carb and should have the splash shield.  O ring goes in the housing first then the splash shield the bowl clamps it in place.

[ACman 7,618]

Good addition to any shop. Around $30 at autozone and last a long time. Just not for carbs either.

 

[biged77 113]

I think you made the right decision in rebuilding your carb.  Be sure to run a small wire through all passages and spray carb cleaner through them.  The Berryman cleaner is a good idea too.  The thick gasket you found is a heat isolator.  There should have been a thinner gasket sandwiched in between it and the carb. I doubt the isolator is needed but I installed one anyway on mine. Look at the engine and carburetor reference manuals in the manual section for more info and part numbers.  The carb number should be stamped on the top right of the inlet flange.  If the throttle shaft has excessive play you can install a Hillman bushing available at Ace hardware.  Requires unscrewing the tiny throttle plate screws which will break off if you don't grind off the ends which have upset threads.  Just some info from my experience, hope this helps.

 

If you don't end up rebuilding the carb you can sell it quick on ebay, Kohler carbs are in demand.

[Gregor 4,846]

24 minutes ago, biged77 said:

Requires unscrewing the tiny throttle plate screws which will break off if you don't grind off the ends which have upset threads

Well that's a good little tid bit to know.

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,795]

5 hours ago, Bentoolong said:

It is a solid machine. It won't win any beauty contests but that isn't what these tractors are for.

As long as all that metal is solid, that surface rust gives ya a good base for a unique patina!

[Gregor 4,846]

2 minutes ago, Wheel Horse 3D said:

As long as all that metal is solid, that surface rust gives ya a good base for a unique patina!

That's good. After starting on this 656, I believe I am going to have some VERY unique patina !

[Bentoolong 94]

I'm working on the carb rebuild today and I have a question.

 

I noticed my old "needle" in the float bowl did not drop down onto the float like I thought it should .

 

I installed the new needle and seat today and it does the same thing. Maybe 50% of the time it hangs up.

 

Am I OK with that?

 

I know that the pressure from the fuel pump will coax it loose but my expectation was is that it would be 'free" to move. I'll more than likely just have "on the bottle" when I start it and won't use the fuel pump initially. I'm not sure what shape the pump is in. I'll test it once I get it started.

 

Do I need to polish the corners of the needle?

 

Bentoolong

[Handy Don 12,237]

Simple answer is that while gently working the float though its normal range the needle valve pin should not hang up anywhere.

It might be the seat that's worn or damaged.

[Gregor 4,846]

6 hours ago, Bentoolong said:

Do I need to polish the corners of the needle?

No

[Handy Don 12,237]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

No

  If the needle is thinner, it'll not center properly in the valve seat and affect performance. Clean as a whistle, yes. Polished, no.

[RJR49 129]

My Chinese Carb not only works better than an old OEM, but cost less than  than the OEM rebuild kit. BUT, the choke cable is reversed

[Bentoolong 94]

10 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Simple answer is that while gently working the float though its normal range the needle valve pin should not hang up anywhere.

It might be the seat that's worn or damaged.

I should have mentioned these parts (needle and Seat) are from a rebuild kit I ordered so the parts are new. Raisman.

Should I be looking at getting a refund and a new kit?

 

Mark

Edited May 2, 2021 by Bentoolong

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

On 4/24/2021 at 11:34 AM, Bentoolong said:

when I engage the PTO it actually pulls the engine back a little. That doesn't seem right even though this has the shaker frame motor mount.

Should I loosen the clutch a little?

 

I didn't see anyone address this.

 

With the rubber mounts on the shaker plate the engine will move a bit when you engage the PTO.  That's pretty much normal.

 

BUT, if it moves a LOT, it means that the mounts are worn out.

 

Zack Kerber makes solid mounts to replace the rubber ones.  Many people think those rubber mounts were a bad idea.  I replaced them on my machine with the solids and have not noticed any difference in vibration.  Now my muffler no longer hits the hood when I engage the PTO, and belt alignment doesn't change.

 

[tunahead72 2,424]

18 hours ago, Bentoolong said:

... Do I need to polish the corners of the needle?

 

2 hours ago, Bentoolong said:

... these parts (needle and Seat) are from a rebuild kit I ordered so the parts are new. Raisman...

 

If the new needle has a rubber tip, I would agree it shouldn't be polished.  I've seen metal-tipped needles on Walbro carbs, so theoretically maybe they could be polished, but only if they're old stock or oxidized.

 

You CAN polish the new seat with a Q-tip inserted into a drill, if you think it's necessary.  I've even seen guys adding a tiny dab of Brasso or similar brass cleaner to make it nice and shiny, but I wouldn't think it would be necessary with a new kit.

 

Check the float and the pins, maybe something is bent or damaged there.

 

On 4/29/2021 at 12:59 PM, biged77 said:

...  If the throttle shaft has excessive play you can install a Hillman bushing available at Ace hardware.  Requires unscrewing the tiny throttle plate screws which will break off if you don't grind off the ends which have upset threads...

 

I've had good luck getting those screws out without grinding, just by slowly unscrewing a tiny bit, then screwing back in a little, then repeat, a little at a time, until they come out completely.

 

Also, did you find the part number on this carb?  There's a carb reference manual here that has nice parts diagrams and part numbers, very useful:

Engine Kohler Carburetor reference #TP-2377-E.pdf - Kohler - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum

 

And finally, have you done a complete soaking like some have recommended?  Judging from your earlier photos, I'd recommend it.

 

[Bentoolong 94]

The rubber tip and seat wouldn't cause the sticking. I'm more inclined to polish the 3 corners of the side of the needle.

 

No I didn't soak it but cleaned it with carb cleaner and compressed air. The inside seems a lot cleaner than the outside. The offensive crud on the outside was man made so it is no indication of what is inside.

 

BenTooLong

[Bentoolong 94]

Well it is running!!!!!!!!

Not very well but the motor sounds pretty stout.

 

I did get the needle and seat issue resolved to my satisfaction.

 

I posted over in Engines about getting the carb set. What I'm interested in is the throttle cable and the linkage on the top of the carb.

 

I can figure out the idle and high speed screws but all the other stuff that I'm not sure I have right.

 

At this point I can't get it to idle but I have rather cheesy gas tank setup that doesn't hold much gas.

 

Anyone give me a hand on setting the throttle linkage(s). Governor?

 

BenTooLong

Edited May 3, 2021 by Bentoolong