Starter generator swap

[danweikert21 166]

Hi guys im looking at a 857 to buy wich has a 8hp kohler with a starter generator I've been wanting one for a long time my raider 10 has a k301 12 hp im wondering if I can take the starter generator off the 8 horse and put it on the 12 horse thanks guys

[squonk 41,501]

Pretty sure you can as far as the starter/genny itself. The mounting brackets are probably different being from a big block to a small block

[953 nut 56,015]

Presuming the Raider's K-301 has a starter/generator the S/G from the 857 will work fine.

  Mike @squonk types faster than I do.

[danweikert21 166]

My k301 does not have a starter generator just a normal starter is unfortunately

[squonk 41,501]

Not only brackets but you would also need the flywheel pulley, grass screen, belt cover and shroud from a big block starter gen engine.

 

This engine was a regular starter engine converted like you want

 

[953 nut 56,015]

That would be a lot more involved. You would need - - - - - - - - - - - - - -        @squonk did it again!    

[pfrederi 17,929]

If you you get the shroud from a S/G big block you will have to remove the ring gear from your flywheel.

[pfrederi 17,929]

You can reuse your existing shroud but you will probably have to remove part or all of the Bendix Bump out to clear your battery.  Edit:  Just realized you are using it on a Long frame you should not have to modify you existing shroud...

Edited April 23, 2021 by pfrederi

[Gregor 4,847]

2 hours ago, danweikert21 said:

the starter generator off the 8 horse and put it on the 12 horse

Just curious.  Why?

 

[pfrederi 17,929]

I did it because S/G are really cool sounding as you fire them up.  So smooth and nicer than the rather violent Bendix stater system

[Gregor 4,847]

49 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

I did it because S/G are really cool sounding as you fire them up.

I am assembling mine as we speak, and I have lots of pictures of the timing marks.

 

 

[ronhatch 406]

I may be wrong, but I always felt the S/G set up performed rather marginally between the belt slipping and not charging nearly as well as an alternator.  In fact, I don't recall ever seeing an electric PTO clutch on a tractor with a S/G set up.  You're going through all this effort just because you like the sound better when you're cranking over the engine?     If you take the S/G off the 857 then, pray tell, how are you going to start it?    Sorry, but what am I missing?

Edited April 23, 2021 by ronhatch

[squonk 41,501]

Some of us are just old school

[pfrederi 17,929]

The three S/G I deal with do not have a belt slippage problem (once you get the correct belt...)  They will put out about 12 amps  which is more than the 10 amp stator system and close to the 15 amp used later.  No reason why you can't use an electric PTO they only draw about 4 amps.  WH started using Electric PTOs in 68/69 on GT14 and Electros  By that point they were no longer using S/Gs. 

 

Why did they stop using S/G  MONEY!!  They are bigger heavier and more expensive to manufacture than the stator/ bendix starter system

[Gregor 4,847]

10 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

They are bigger heavier and more expensive to manufacture than the stator/ bendix starter system

But they don't look as cool.

The stator/bendix, I mean

Edited April 23, 2021 by Gregor

[ronhatch 406]

I'm not only old school, I'm just plain old.   But seriously folks, I don't see the coolness of a big old S/G hanging off the side of the engine taking up room and - I would think - HP to turn it. I just personally prefer the cleaner look, higher efficiently and newer technology of  the Stator/Bendix system. I also think it's usually a good thing anytime you can eliminate a belt. In fact, I was thinking of removing the K181 with the S/G from my restored 867 and installing a K241 with a newer alternator/starter set up. Unfortunately I just rebuilt the K181 a couple of years ago, so it's staying. Just my two cents, thoughts and blabbering of a old man. To each his own. 

 

Edited April 23, 2021 by ronhatch

[Gregor 4,847]

If everyone had the same opinions, and everyone did everything the same, this forum, if it even existed, would be pretty boring.

[pfrederi 17,929]

1 hour ago, ronhatch said:

I'm not only old school, I'm just plain old.   But seriously folks, I don't see the coolness of a big old S/G hanging off the side of the engine taking up room and - I would think - HP to turn it. I just personally prefer the cleaner look, higher efficiently and newer technology of  the Stator/Bendix system. I also think it's usually a good thing anytime you can eliminate a belt. In fact, I was thinking of removing the K181 with the S/G from my restored 867 and installing a K241 with a newer alternator/starter set up. Unfortunately I just rebuilt the K181 a couple of years ago, so it's staying. Just my two cents, thoughts and blabbering of a old man. To each his own. 

 

 

Actually using an S/G on a big block lets you put it on a short frame with out having to move the battery

[danweikert21 166]

Thanks guys I bought the 857 and I'm gonna keep the engine on it I like it too much now to take everything apart however the battery does not charge would someone be able to get me a wiring diagram for a kohler k 181 with a starter generator on a 1967 wheel horse 857 im gonna re wire it 

 

[squonk 41,501]

 

[richmondred01 2,247]

On 4/23/2021 at 8:30 AM, 953 nut said:

That would be a lot more involved. You would need - - - - - - - - - - - - - -        @squonk did it again!    

yep.

He’s s a dream crusher.