C-101 Resurrection and Fuse Question

[Bentoolong 94]

Hi all,

 

I'm a relatively new member here and I just picked up my first tractor. It looks like it has been setting outside for a while. Clues? Maybe a quart of water in the gas tank (cracked cap).

 

Oh and the usual mouse nest and a snake skin thrown in.

 

It has pretty good "bones" and engine is free and it feels like it has decent compression.

 

I've hot-wired it and it the starter is good. I'm not sure about the starter switch at this point since I don't have a key.  

 

What I do know is the solenoid is shot and I suspect the coil as well.  I show around 1.2ohms between + and - but nothing from the plug hole to either side. Points are good after cleaning and regapping.

 

My question is where do you find a good value on parts and what part numbers do I need.

 

I have heard TSC and NAPA are good places to go and I'm comfortable shopping online if it will save a few bucks.

 

I'd really like to get this old dog running.

 

Part #'s and vendors is what I need. Maybe the collective has found a good supplier.

 

Thanks

 

Bentoolong

Edited April 24, 2021 by Bentoolong
misspelled

[squonk 41,120]

You will get nothing from the Coil tower terminal to either side. The center is a separate winding. Napa # IC 14

 

Solenoid Napa # St 82

[Bentoolong 94]

Thanks,

 

So is there a way to bench test the coil? Maybe I should get the solenoid in and crank it over and see of I get spark.

 

Thanks,

Bentoolong

[squonk 41,120]

If you have a voltmeter. With key on you should have 12 volts at the coil " +"  If you do Then move to the coil "- " 

Take out the spark plug. Turn the engine clockwise flywheel side   by hand. You should have 0 volts at the meter most of the time while you are turning the engine. ( Point's closed ) Keep turning the engine. When the points open you will get 12volts on your meter. Keep turning the engine. The meter should go back to 0 volts when the points close again. If the meter never reads 12 volts the points aren't opening or are so dirty the electricity is traveling thru the gunk. If the meter reads 12volts all the time, the points aren't closing or are corroded enough electricity can't get to ground thru the points or the points bracket itself isn't grounded.

 

Same thing with a 12volt test light. The light should be off most of the time the motor is turning. And light up briefly when the points open. 

[squonk 41,120]

There is a way to test the coil on the bench. It will require a spark tester, a couple of alligator clips teat leads and a 12Volt battery. I haven't seen coils go bad very often unless they get hot from leaving the key on ect.

[ACman 7,618]

.... lol @Bentoolong these guys love pictures and the easiest way is to be a supporter  . Even if you don’t stick with ‘s there’s a other brands section and they’ll help you out. I’m just happy you came got this tractor and your trying to resurrected it . 
 

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/store/

Edited April 21, 2021 by ACman

[Bentoolong 94]

You want pics? I got pics. A note about the crud on the carb. I think the screws that hold the filter plate were to long so someone ran some ATV in there to take up the space.

Cleaning.

 

While I'm waiting for a few parts, I'm familiarizing  myself with the schematic and the tractor.

 

I'm going over a lot of connections. 

 

On the schematic, there is a Pedal interlock and a PTO Interlock switch. I'm not seeing either of those.

 

I do see where someone bypassed something around the shifters and I see the seat switch is disconnected. I think the leads for that are hanging under the tractor.

 

Just to get this running I'd like to test what I have or just bypass the safety switches. Some sites don't allow such discussions and I'm not sure about here.

 

My ammeter is still connected and that may be an issue if this tractor was sitting outside for a while. Bypass easily?

 

Or how would I bypass the ammeter and all interlocks. I think connect the black switch lead directly to the coil. That would take care of the interlocks.

 

Since the ammeter looks hard to get at It looks like I'd need to find the wires that service the ammeter and join them.

 

I also see a 25A fuse between the solenoid and the ammeter. Where would I look for that fuse (holder)? I can't seem to locate it.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

BenToolong

 

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Bentoolong

[ACman 7,618]

Ok fellas I gave this tractor to Bentoolong to save a horse from the scrapyard. Anyone that can steer him in the right Direction would be appreciated . @Achto @WHX24 @c-series don @953 nut @squonk @stevasaurus @gwest_ca or if you guys know of someone else that can help please do. I’d love to see this tractor saved .

[Bentoolong 94]

Attached schematic if that helps

Demyst 1978-81 C-Series.pdf

[Achto 27,577]

@Bentoolong I see a fair amount of work there, lets start by trying to get spark.

 

First install a good battery. To by pass absolutely every thing, remove the wire from the "+" side of the coil. Prepare a wire that can be easily removed & installed between the battery "+" and the coil "+". Pull your spark plug out, attach the plug wire to the plug and ground the body of the plug out on the head of the engine. Use a heavy wire or a pliers to jump between the two large terminals on the starter solenoid. The starter should now turn the engine over. if this happens, the starter is good. Now attach the wire from the battery to the coil and spin the engine over to see if you have spark. Do not leave the wire from the battery to the coil hooked up for more than 30sec without the engine turning over. You will burn out the coil. If you don't have spark, start by cleaning the points again. Once you know that you have spark then you can go back and get the electrical system working properly.

 

Before trying to start the engine I would highly suggest rebuilding the carb and fully cleaning every bit of the fuel system. New fuel lines, filter, clean the tank, etc. Also make sure that there is enough oil in the engine.

 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

Have you found the tractor's ID plate and serial number? If not post all the numbers of the engine decal including the serial number and we may be able to identify this one. Then the correct manuals can be found.

 

Garry

 

Adding - I don't know for sure where the tractor ID plate is.

Early 1978 they were down by the steering fan gear and facing forward.

Sometime in 1979 the were up high on the flat panel below the dash housing.

[Bentoolong 94]

49 minutes ago, Achto said:

@Bentoolong I see a fair amount of work there, lets start by trying to get spark.

 

First install a good battery. To by pass absolutely every thing, remove the wire from the "+" side of the coil. Prepare a wire that can be easily removed & installed between the battery "+" and the coil "+". Pull your spark plug out, attach the plug wire to the plug and ground the body of the plug out on the head of the engine. Use a heavy wire or a pliers to jump between the two large terminals on the starter solenoid. The starter should now turn the engine over. if this happens, the starter is good. Now attach the wire from the battery to the coil and spin the engine over to see if you have spark. Do not leave the wire from the battery to the coil hooked up for more than 30sec without the engine turning over. You will burn out the coil. If you don't have spark, start by cleaning the points again. Once you know that you have spark then you can go back and get the electrical system working properly.

 

Before trying to start the engine I would highly suggest rebuilding the carb and fully cleaning every bit of the fuel system. New fuel lines, filter, clean the tank, etc. Also make sure that there is enough oil in the engine.

 

 

Thanks Achto,

My plan is to get the ignition switch installed and a new solenoid and work out from there. I have the points working and I'm assuming the coil is good. We'll see.

 

If there was a good method to test the coil without installing it I'd do that. So far most of my work has been done with a DVOM. I have a battery installed but haven't utilized it much. When I get the starter working, that will change.

 

The "bypass" I spoke of was in reference to the interlocks and the ammeter. I'll be able to troubleshoot  better when I get the battery connected to a good solenoid.

 

I haven't opened up the carb yet but that will happen soon. Not sure what I'll find but that is half the fun.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

When you look at the illustrated parts list for single-cylinder electrical I believe these are the switches your model should have

Pto switch 104680

Seat switch 106268

Clutch pedal switch 105877

The reason other switches are listed is the ipl also covers models with hydro transmission.

Click on each picture to see them.

 

[Tuneup 1,433]

I see that an intrepid former owner installed a ballast resistor on this machine so there is the assumption that the coil is a standard USA coil which needs that lower current. Since you have a DMM, measure the resistance of the ballast resistor - very low ohms = good. These things cost $$$ nowadays. In testing this coil, connect the battery V to the ballast resistor so the coil sees less volts than 12. You don't want to cook the coil...and, of course, there is no guarantee that the former owner that installed this coil actually installed a standard coil that needs that ballast. If you can't identify it specifically, leave the ballast installed. You can always test the spark on the machine by attaching a clip lead to a sharp nail and grounding it to the engine block or battery negative. Pull it away and see a spark. A nice sharp nail makes for a cleaner break and a better spark.

[Bentoolong 94]

 Off the tag

 

[stevasaurus 22,741]

You have a lot to go through there.  I think Achto was just trying to say...just do one thing at a time.  If you do a bunch of things at once, you will never know what was wrong and maybe never get it to run.  Little steps.  

 

Nice trailer!!  

[Bentoolong 94]

Thanks,

I worked in the phone industry for around 40 years and yes...don;t do to many things at once.

 

Plan:

1. Get it to turn over

2. Get spark

3. Get fuel in there

4. Make it go bang.

5. Jump on it and ride.

 

At this point I'm just going over a lot of electrical connections and getting familiar with the tractor.

Edited April 22, 2021 by Bentoolong

[ACman 7,618]

28 minutes ago, Bentoolong said:

Thanks,

I worked in the phone industry for around 40 years .

so you and @stevasaurus have something in common.

[stevasaurus 22,741]

Yes...lineman for 10 years and cable splicer for 25 years...Illinois Bell.  

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,046]

Your full tractor model number is 91-10K801

Here is what we have for it - 2 pages of search results

https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/search/?q=91-10K801&quick=1&type=downloads_file

 

Garry

 

[Bentoolong 94]

Thanks Garry,

 

Very informative. I'm still looking for a master parts list for the entire tractor. I tried Toro but there website doesn't recognize the model 91-10K801.

 

I looked through your list of info but didn't see anything like that. Should I go to a parts suppliers website?

Mark

 

Found it at the Toro master parts viewer

Edited April 23, 2021 by Bentoolong

[Bentoolong 94]

Some of the schematics I look at have a fuse (25A) in the 12V act between the solenoid and the ammeter. Although the ammeter looks to be wired at the meter, I assume its been bypassed.

 

I do have a fuse holder (empty) in the live that feeds the light switch which is currently not connected.

 

Should I install a fuse somewhere? It seems odd that there is no fusing on this tractor.

 

I could move the existing fuse holder and install a fuse.

[dmoore 822]

Did this one ever get done?

[Bentoolong 94]

Yes, I got it done and actually drove it a few times.

 

I sold it to Pullstart for about what I had into it.

 

Mark

[1940willys 120]

PTO safety ball switch #105877 doe's anyone have a reliable source for this switch? I see Stens lists them but you have to be a Dealer To Buy parts form them now? Frustrating