Charging stator

[Gregor 4,847]

Slowly but surely, I may end up with a working stator. I started wrapping, with 23 windings on each post. After the 4th post I decided to check everything with my continuity meter. I had a short from the wire to case ground of the stator plate. That's not good..I took all the wire back off, and cleaned the stator plate with a mild solven,t so as not to damage the insulating compound on it. I wound 3 wraps on good 3-M electrical tape around each post, making sure the tape was wound in the direction of the wire on that post. Don't know if it matters, but made me feel good anyway.

Now I check with my meter after every post. So far, so good. This is not a job for someone in a hurry to get somewhere. It's meticulous, and takes time.

My first inclination was to wind the wire around the post. I find it works better for me, if I place the spool of wire somewhere so it can un-roll, and at the same time, keep slight tension on the wire, and turn the stator around the wire, rather than trying to wrap the wire around the post.. (if that makes any sense)

Check back in a few hours. If my fingers hold out that long.

[Achto 27,918]

Good idea using the electrical tape. My only concern may be if the windings get hot for some reason, the tape may degrade. I work at a generator manufacturer, we use a type of paper to insulate the windings from the laminates.   

[Ed Kennell 39,228]

[Gregor 4,847]

13 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

we use a type of paper to insulate the windings from the laminates.   

I have fish paper, and I tried it, but it's too heavy. It simply wants to snap, when I tried to wrap the posts.

[JoeM 7,874]

Glass tape ? 
 

 

[Gregor 4,847]

I wonder if spray on bed liner, from a can,  would work as a good insulator. I have never used it. I don't know how tough it is. The heat?

 

CRAP!  It's snowing!

[Gregor 4,847]

Well that didn't take as long as I thought it might. Once you get a pattern going, it goes pretty quick. In the end I have 18 posts, with 23 windings per post, > <. No short to ground, and a reading of .4 to .7, end to end, on my meter, depending on how I hold my mouth. I will give it a couple of coats of Gorilla glue, and hope it dries within a month. I'm not sure what epoxy would do the the electrical tape I applied.

[ranger 1,769]

3 hours ago, Achto said:

Good idea using the electrical tape. My only concern may be if the windings get hot for some reason, the tape may degrade. I work at a generator manufacturer, we use a type of paper to insulate the windings from the laminates.   

If you go onto YouTube, look for “how to make welding machine” and see what they use for insulation! This is all done in Pakistan.

There are quite a few similar videos, also “Pakistani Trucks” is a good series to frighten yourself to death, watching their, ‘Adherence to Health and Safety’, antics. 🙀🙀🙀

Edited April 20, 2021 by ranger

[Gregor 4,847]

2 hours ago, ranger said:

“how to make welding machine”

I will probably stick to my HF welder. Have to wonder what one of those costs in $$$.

[ranger 1,769]

1 minute ago, Gregor said:

I will probably stick to my HF welder. Have to wonder what one of those costs in $$$.

Three curries and a pair of sandals made from an old tyre!😃

[Gregor 4,847]

Shoes? They don't need no stinkin' shoes!

[bc.gold 3,403]

Nicely done but I'm curious to know the insulation class on the wire used, for alternator should be class F and the electrical tape should never have been used.

[Gregor 4,847]

That's all Greek to me. This is what I used for wire. Remington Industries 17SNSP 17 AWG Magnet Wire, Enameled Copper Wire, 1.0 lb, 0.0469" Diameter, 159', 3" Length, Red

The tape is Scotch Super 33+

It will work, or it won't. Time will tell. May have to do it again. I have another stator plate.

 

This on wire. 

• ASIN : B01BD80Q1K

What ever that means.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Gregor

[cafoose 3,355]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

This on wire. 

• ASIN : B01BD80Q1K

What ever that means.

https://www.amazon.com/Remington-Industries-17SNSP-Enameled-Diameter/dp/B01BD80Q1K/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=B01BD80Q1K&qid=1618968226&sr=8-1

[bc.gold 3,403]

14 minutes ago, cafoose said:

https://www.amazon.com/Remington-Industries-17SNSP-Enameled-Diameter/dp/B01BD80Q1K/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=B01BD80Q1K&qid=1618968226&sr=8-1

 

That product has a Temperature Rating: 155°C (311°F) which is an excellent temperature rating for the stater overhaul.

Edited April 21, 2021 by bc.gold

[bc.gold 3,403]

5 hours ago, bc.gold said:

Nicely done but I'm curious to know the insulation class on the wire used, for alternator should be class F and the electrical tape should never have been used.

 

The flame retardant #m 33+ tape withstands a temperature range of 0 to 221 °F (18 to 105 °C). You should consider replacing it with a better insulation with a Class F or better rating.

 

[Gregor 4,847]

5 hours ago, bc.gold said:

 

You should consider replacing it with a better insulation with a Class F or better rating.

I'm not quite sure just how a person would do that.

 

For next time, what would you recommend using for insulating material on the stator plate?

Edited April 21, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,847]

Here is the original stator/coil assembly from my motor. At some point in it's life, it was switched to battery ignition. I kept it that way. When I checked the stator wires with my meter, from one end to the other, it show infinity. 0 ohms. It was not shorted to ground. Today I checked with a better meter, (I think), It showed .4, so maybe it's good, I don't know.

Regardless, I ordered and re-wound another stator plate. Maybe I did it wrong, maybe I did it right, don't really know that either, but since I did it, I am going to install it, just to see if it works.

At this point, this poor motor has been apart, and put together again, so many times, it probably feels like a lab rat, that simply wants to be put out of it's misery. I am considering, putting it back together with Velcro strips.

@Tractorhead You were wondering about the magnets in the flywheel. This is it.Again, I don't know if each of those little squares are magnets, but there are 12 of them.

[Gregor 4,847]

"The best laid plans of mice and men, often go awry"

Robert Burns said that. I think we must be related. Here is my original stator inside the flywheel.

And here is my rewound stator laying on the flywheel.

You simply can't put 10 pounds of sh-t, in a 5 pound bucket. It just won't go.

[Tractorhead 9,065]

Yap, that are the Magnets, that clears why you needed Wireing scheme - one post cw next post ccw.

That was the unknown i didn‘t know in your Picture before you posted.

 

That combination of coils and magnets will bring you collected together the needed Voltage

instead of only one coil with something above 240-260 wdgs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Gregor 4,847]

I am back to using the original stator. This is the voltage regulator I plan to use. I hope someone will tell me, if this will not work.

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

It appears your using the same flywheel magnet combination, the pole arrangement will be mismatched to the new stater.

 

You may have noticed on the old stater the coils were encapsulated in a type of varnish this high temperature varnish served as insulation in addition to keeping the wires from being able to move and rub against a neighbor. As copper is heated it expands then contracts on cooling.

 

To get a better understanding read this article. Insulating Electric Motors: VPI or Varnish Dip?

 

Snippet from the article.

 

• VPI reduces coil vibration

Historically, the singular most important cause of winding failure has been abrasion of either the ground or turn insulation. Vibration produced by the electro-magnetic forces acting on the windings causes wear or chaffing of the insulation when the windings move relative to the laminations, surge rings, ties, tie blocks, etc. As the insulation wears away, a point is reached where it can no longer withstand the voltage stress and a failure to ground occurs.

 

Equally serious is the flexing of the windings that can cause the insulated turns to short and bind together. Again, the insulation is abraded or worn away until failure occurs, causing a turn to turn motor failure.

 

The resin serves as an adhesive between the strands and turns. This causes the winding to be much stiffer, the same as a sheet of finished plywood is much stiffer than the unbonded layers of wood.

[Gregor 4,847]

7 minutes ago, bc.gold said:

You may have noticed on the old stater the coils were encapsulated in a type of varnish this high temperature varnish served as insulation in addition to keeping the wires from being able to move and rub against a neighbor. As copper is heated it expands then contracts on cooling.

 

Apparently, I need to find a high temp, liquid glue or sealer, to apply to the windings as I go, if I plan to do this again. Which I probably will. I'm just hoping the old stator works.

[bc.gold 3,403]

13 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Apparently, I need to find a high temp, liquid glue or sealer, to apply to the windings as I go, if I plan to do this again. Which I probably will. I'm just hoping the old stator works.

 

The replacement stater you purchased was used on many different brands of North American manufactured engines.

Edited April 21, 2021 by bc.gold

[Tractorhead 9,065]

10 hours ago, Gregor said:

I'm not quite sure just how a person would do that.

 

For next time, what would you recommend using for insulating material on the stator plate?

 

A thin plasticfoil can also do the trick, depending on how much Load your coils must serve.

Best is if it is electrical insulated but thermal conducting.

The more of Amps are needed, the thicker must be the wire because of Current density,

where also more heat will occur if used on it‘s limits.

 

That doesn‘t mean smaller diameter Wires doesn‘t not heat up.

If the Posts be the same compared with two different diameters of Wire the surface for thermal heat dissapation

on smaller wires is much better compared to the thicker wire.

 

So thinner Wires have on same size on a post simply a larger contact surface and because of that 

simply a better temp conducting Surface and as a result of this can be a better heat transfer between the metalcore and the wire.

The insulation ideally covers only sharp metal edges but is thermal good conducting to remove the Head out of the Wire,

that results over all in a better heat dissapation.

 

At least there exists different wires where thermal Wire insulation is a higher grade.

There are special Wires for alternators available, they be much better suited in heat resistance instead of Transformer Wires.

Also one of the reasons is a transformer works on a defined frequency, a alternator works wich changable frequencies(RPM‘s)

- simply said.

 

The metal core on alternators or transformers are made of several thin plates built to one core to reduce eddy currents,

they also bring heat into the system.

 

an Alternator especially high power Alternator is at all a complex system i.m.h.o. not in few words simply to describe,

because there are a lot of interactions between the things.

 

Edit:

btw. I use a simply high temp clear coat after each layer applied with a brush to get a good binding between the insulated copperwires together. Check before on a piece of your wire if you clearcoat will not harm the insulation of your wire.

Edited April 21, 2021 by Tractorhead