Drive belt replacement issue

[unkker 7]

Hey guys,

I need your help on an issue I've encountered when I replaced my drive belt. It's on a 1990 520H - belt number 114895. As you can see in the red circle, the belt touches at the idler pulley. The idler pulley is free moving. I found this out when I started it up, I smelled rubber.

I searched for a picture of how the belt should be, without any luck. I believe the belt is placed properly as I didn't have anything to go by due the old belt came off in pieces.

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,095]

Who supplied the belt?

It does not look like it is fabric covered. Raw rubber on the sides.

I would measure the outside length and see how close it is to 83".

 

Garry

[953 nut 55,769]

I have had good results with the Kevlar belts from Tractor Supply.   Take your old belt with you to make sure the measurement is correct. You should find that a 83" by 5/8" belt (5L-830 / B-80) will get you going. 

[squonk 41,321]

5L830 will give you better performance than a B-80 when a backside idler is involved.

[peter lena 8,720]

'unkker , your belt is fighting itself , notice that there is a " tapered  V  side  and a flat side ,your pulley is the belt tensioner " like this , the other related pictures will help you find your set up . pete

 

[8ntruck 7,082]

A Kevlar fabric covered belt will give you smoother clutch engagement.  To me, it looks like the belt might be too long.  You sure the belt is on the proper pulley on the engine?

 

Good luck.

[unkker 7]

15 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Who supplied the belt?

It does not look like it is fabric covered. Raw rubber on the sides.

I would measure the outside length and see how close it is to 83".

 

Garry

It's a wheel horse belt from Toro.

[unkker 7]

15 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Who supplied the belt?

It does not look like it is fabric covered. Raw rubber on the sides.

I would measure the outside length and see how close it is to 83".

 

Garry

It's a Toro wheel horse belt. 82 1/2" long. 11/16" wide.

[unkker 7]

12 hours ago, peter lena said:

'unkker , your belt is fighting itself , notice that there is a " tapered  V  side  and a flat side ,your pulley is the belt tensioner " like this , the other related pictures will help you find your set up . pete

 

My rear pulley is 5 1/4", idler is 4 1/2".

The idler in this pic looks smaller, almost 1/2 the size of the rear pulley. I'm wondering if previous owner changed the idler?

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,095]

From what I see the 4-1/2" idler is correct. If it was smaller you would need an even shorter belt.

I can not find the diameter of the 108316 pulley. Perhaps it is too small but that does not make sense because they were same since 1982.

7443 engine pulley is 5-1/4" OD.

 

There are not any engine to frame bolts missing allowing the engine to move back?

 

Garry

[Darb1964 1,055]

I've been looking and looking to figure it out.

19 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

From what I see the 4-1/2" idler is correct. If it was smaller you would need an even shorter belt.

I can not find the diameter of the 108316 pulley. Perhaps it is too small but that does not make sense because they were same since 1982.

7443 engine pulley is 5-1/4" OD.

 

There are not any engine to frame bolts missing allowing the engine to move back?

 

Garry

I've been looking and looking to figure it out, I think you have a good take that the motor moved. To me it looks like the idler pulley looks too big and I don't see the idler spring. I think the spring was lost and someone put a larger pulley on to compensate??

[unkker 7]

42 minutes ago, Darb1964 said:

I've been looking and looking to figure it out.

I've been looking and looking to figure it out, I think you have a good take that the motor moved. To me it looks like the idler pulley looks too big and I don't see the idler spring. I think the spring was lost and someone put a larger pulley on to compensate??

Garry, No bolts are missing and engine hasn't moved. I re-powered it last fall, only modification I did was raised the motor an inch with a steel plate. Same location bolts. Idler arm and spring are intact as well.

Darb, I looked for size of the idler pulley also, found nothing

Today, I was looking at my 1987 or 8 to see the size of the idler pulley. It is 3 1/2"

[Darb1964 1,055]

12 minutes ago, unkker said:

Garry, No bolts are missing and engine hasn't moved. I re-powered it last fall, only modification I did was raised the motor an inch with a steel plate. Same location bolts. Idler arm and spring are intact as well.

Darb, I looked for size of the idler pulley also, found nothing

Today, I was looking at my 1987 or 8 to see the size of the idler pulley. It is 3 1/2"

Adding the inch changed the angle, I guess it could make the difference. I would try a shorter belt. After I commented I looked closer and seen the spring.

[unkker 7]

I'm going to stop by the Toro shop in the morning and see if they have anything on the size of pulley's. I'm wondering now, why there is a difference in idler pulley size between my 1990 and 1988 520H's.

 

Thanks to all

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,095]

Did the replacement engine come from an 8-speed tractor?

Gear transmissions with 1-1/8" crankshaft use 4" OD engine pulley #7466.

Hydro transmissions with 1-1/8" crankshaft use 5-1/4" OD engine pulley #7443.

 

Garry

[peter lena 8,720]

'unkker , your belt is fighting itself , notice that there is a " tapered  V  side  and a flat side ,your pulley is the belt tensioner "

[wallfish 17,079]

4 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

Did the replacement engine come from an 8-speed tractor?

Gear transmissions with 1-1/8" crankshaft use 4" OD engine pulley #7466.

Hydro transmissions with 1-1/8" crankshaft use 5-1/4" OD engine pulley #7443.

 

Garry

but he did use a plate to mount it so it may not be a WH spec'ed engine with the holes in the bottom of the oil pan If the engine pulley is indeed smaller then stock for a hydro that would explain the belt touching

The idler pulley diameter doesn't make ANY difference except for the amount of tension it will apply. A larger diameter will just extend the spring and a smaller one will relax it more. The belt position will always remain in the same position either way. If both the trans and the engine pulley are the correct size and the distance between them is correct, then it's the belt length. If the belt is the correct length (which it  appears to be from the numbers provided) then the size of the pulleys have changed or the distance between the pulleys has changed. Raising the engine 1 inch will not make that much of a difference.

Verify the pulley sizes, verify the belt length or just change it with a shorter belt. It's a hydro so exact belt size isn't as important like the clutching needed for a manual trans. It's nice to be able to disengage the belt but the 520HC I have doesn't even have a belt disengagement lever.

[unkker 7]

Wallfish,

Worked all day, tore off the engine pulley just now, it's 4". I just took the pulley off the old engine and used it on new engine thinking it was correct. Duh!  I never noticed the belt rubbing itself, I'm surprised it lasted the winter time with the amount of plowing I did this winter.

Edited April 18, 2021 by unkker

[unkker 7]

On 4/17/2021 at 9:42 AM, wallfish said:

but he did use a plate to mount it so it may not be a WH spec'ed engine with the holes in the bottom of the oil pan If the engine pulley is indeed smaller then stock for a hydro that would explain the belt touching

The idler pulley diameter doesn't make ANY difference except for the amount of tension it will apply. A larger diameter will just extend the spring and a smaller one will relax it more. The belt position will always remain in the same position either way. If both the trans and the engine pulley are the correct size and the distance between them is correct, then it's the belt length. If the belt is the correct length (which it  appears to be from the numbers provided) then the size of the pulleys have changed or the distance between the pulleys has changed. Raising the engine 1 inch will not make that much of a difference.

Verify the pulley sizes, verify the belt length or just change it with a shorter belt. It's a hydro so exact belt size isn't as important like the clutching needed for a manual trans. It's nice to be able to disengage the belt but the 520HC I have doesn't even have a belt disengagement lever.

Wallfish, 

By chance, would you have any idea where I could find the 5 1/4" pulley? I found one on Facebook, $160. I realize my unit is 30 some years old, but that seems a bit pricey. I'm thinking for this application, set screws are a must, correct?

Edited April 19, 2021 by unkker

[wallfish 17,079]

4 hours ago, unkker said:

Wallfish, 

By chance, would you have any idea where I could find the 5 1/4" pulley? I found one on Facebook, $160. I realize my unit is 30 some years old, but that seems a bit pricey. I'm thinking for this application, set screws are a must, correct?

Try A-Z tractors. He's a vendor on here https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/169-a-z-tractor/

The drive pulley isn't just a regular pulley as they have threaded holes for the PTO

[unkker 7]

5 hours ago, wallfish said:

Try A-Z tractors. He's a vendor on here https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/forum/169-a-z-tractor/

The drive pulley isn't just a regular pulley as they have threaded holes for the PTO

 

Thank you

[rjg854 11,475]

16 hours ago, unkker said:

Wallfish, 

By chance, would you have any idea where I could find the 5 1/4" pulley? I found one on Facebook, $160. I realize my unit is 30 some years old, but that seems a bit pricey. I'm thinking for this application, set screws are a must, correct?

USApulley.com

[peter lena 8,720]

@unkker,  do you have an INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY NEAR YOU ?, incredible to me that you would even consider spending  that on a pulley , supply has walls filled with pulleys and belts and gear drive parts , also industrial lubricants . another thing is that the pulleys that they offer regularly have a much larger bearing and wide rubber bearing shields that easily pop off to regrease with HI TEMP GREASE , TO STOP FAILURES. pete

[unkker 7]

4 hours ago, peter lena said:

@unkker,  do you have an INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY NEAR YOU ?, incredible to me that you would even consider spending  that on a pulley , supply has walls filled with pulleys and belts and gear drive parts , also industrial lubricants . another thing is that the pulleys that they offer regularly have a much larger bearing and wide rubber bearing shields that easily pop off to regrease with HI TEMP GREASE , TO STOP FAILURES. pete

 

Hey Pete,

I wasn't even going to spend that much, I did a search was all and found that one. Before Wallfish posted his reply, I did go to a local industrial supply store, I'm approx an hour from any larger city so had to order it. I should have it in a couple of days. Thanks for your input.

[peter lena 8,720]

unkker, glad you made out, I regularly  change things up to correct a failure and turn it into an improvement , have 3 horses and verify any change I  make , then add it to the other 2 . try to have bombproof stuff , could be over kill , but it consistently works , have that pulley set up on all 3 , solid , smooth and silent , keep in touch , pete