Wheel Horse model unknown

[Stubby 19]

I just purchased an unknown model. the model tag is missing and it is hydro with hydraulic lift. It has a Tecumseh 143-712012 which apparently was made for craftsman. It fires up, but just have to do the normal cleaning of the carb. My main issue is the wiring of it. The ignition, starter relay/solenoid, starter/generator and regulator I think I have wired correctly. I just get a click so am pointing towards solenoid being bad. I have cleaned up all connections. Since I do not have the actual model, hard to get the schematic. I do not see any safety shut off at the seat.

[Achto 27,576]

Looks to be a bit of a Franken Horse. If it was a "C" model it would have throttle & choke levers instead push pull knobs. With a little love it should be a good worker though.

 

As for a wiring diagram, I would use one for a Raider 9 or 10 with a Tecumseh engine.

 

[squonk 41,118]

Yup. Looks like someone threw it together on a Friday night.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

This wiring should work. Click on the picture in the link.

Garry

[Stubby 19]

Yes  have a 101, 105, 416... They must have hurt the hood. 

 

[Stubby 19]

I can jump the solenoid and it starts but the key will not shut it off. I also have a generator regulator part number D1303G-2 and nothing is labeled in there. I have the main wire going to the starter from the solenoid and another coming from the regulator. Once the key is on the first click the wire from regulator is hot. 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

I posted the wrong tractor model wiring so changed it above.

The ignition switch M terminal should ground the ignition wire to shut the engine OFF. Make sure no battery voltage gets the the ignition wire. That will release the magic smoke from the ignition coil.

 

Garry

[Stubby 19]

 

2 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

I posted the wrong tractor model wiring so changed it above.

The ignition switch M terminal should ground the ignition wire to shut the engine OFF. Make sure no battery voltage gets the the ignition wire. That will release the magic smoke from the ignition coil.

 

Garry

This diagram does not have the solenoid in it. There are two wires that are on the starter/generator. The one is for the starter to start it, and the other I would think is for charging. That one goes back to the ignition switch. The starter/generator is belt driven with the engine. My ignition has four connections Starter, Ignition, accessory, power that comes from the solenoid.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Stubby

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

Thought I changed the wiring diagram but guess I did not. Sorry

You don't have a M terminal on the ignition switch? That is what is needed for the magneto ignition.

 

If you have an I (eye) terminal look for a relay that converts the battery ignition wiring system to a magneto wiring system.

This is very important because the magneto ignition wire must never see any battery voltage and if the switch has a "ignition" terminal that will destroy the ignition if the wire goes to it.

Find the magneto ignition wire and disconnect it. It is not needed to run the engine until you get it figured out. Ground the magneto wire to stop the engine.

Garry

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

143-712012 is a Tecumseh HH120-120095G

Record this number to source engine parts.

 

[Stubby 19]

I have to head off to bed, back at it. I do not remember seeing any wire coming from the engine/magneto. I will have to get some pictures as soon as I can and see if I can explain it better with pictures. Thank you for your help. I really want to try and save this one for some reason. I dont like the words parts tractor.

[WHX?? 48,815]

8 hours ago, squonk said:

Yup. Looks like someone threw it together on a Friday night.

With lots of adult beverages involved.

We thank you for trying to save and good luck. 

[Stubby 19]

Thanks. Ok I have a much better idea of how it is wired but unfortunately the diagram is not correct or this model. There are no wires that go fro the magneto back anywhere. The generator must do the rest regarding the battery charging etc. there is more in the diagram than this machine needs. Solenoid, battery positive to top terminal and other top terminal to generator. One of the smaller solenoid screws ground, the other goes to battery on ignition switch? No the regulator that is on this one has four connections. gen, L, Bat, F. I am assuming F is ground and L is for accessories (lighter). But not sure if bat goest to B on ignition or... Also not sure where Gen comes from either from the gen or.... It will be nice to actually get this wired correctly. My ignition has ST in the middle, acc, ign, bat connections. Thank you in advance

 

[Stubby 19]

Solenoid s bad, so getting a new one. i think I am pretty close to wiring this correctly. Guess we will see when I get solenoid. Have fire extinguishers handy.

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

Your ignition is self-powered so it requires an ignition wire to go to a switch with an M terminal - grounded to the chassis in the OFF position to kill the engine.

Do not allow any battery voltage to get to the ignition wire - the coil will go up in smoke.

Sounds like you have an ignition switch for battery ignition. It can be used if you add a relay to isolate the magneto.

 

F is the field on the generator.

L is for accessories and does not need to be used.

G is for the generator A terminal. The A is also connected to the solenoid cold side.

B is connected to the battery +

Mounting the regulator on the generator provides the ground for it.

 

Garry

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

Tried to find a picture of your ignition so the ignition wire could be identified. I don't know Tecumseh ignitions and am no smarter looking at the manual. Maybe you will have more luck. Did notice many of the ignition wires are green.

Garry

[Stubby 19]

56 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Tried to find a picture of your ignition so the ignition wire could be identified. I don't know Tecumseh ignitions and am no smarter looking at the manual. Maybe you will have more luck. Did notice many of the ignition wires are green.

Garry

Thanks. I do not know where to go but will mess with it more when I get the new solenoid. It is weird that there is no wires coming from the engine and there is no M on any of the parts. Ignition switch ST, BAT, ACC IGN. Starter/generator has two connections. Regulator has Gen, , F, Bat and then there is the solenoid with four connections which I understand how that is wired. None of them resemble exactly what I have. Thank goodness I did not pay much for this machine in case it smokes. 

[Howie 886]

Whatever you do check that Ign terminal and see if there is 12 volts there. 

[953 nut 55,229]

If your engine has a magneto ignition then the ignition switch should not have an "I" terminal. The 103-991 ignition switch is the most common five wire switch for use with a magnito.

The wire to thw magnito may have been cut off or broken and fell behind the flywheel cover. Remove the cover and take a picture of the mag. area so we can help you.

[Stubby 19]

6 hours ago, 953 nut said:

If your engine has a magneto ignition then the ignition switch should not have an "I" terminal. The 103-991 ignition switch is the most common five wire switch for use with a magnito.

The wire to thw magnito may have been cut off or broken and fell behind the flywheel cover. Remove the cover and take a picture of the mag. area so we can help you.

Ok here are the pictures. I see two wires going behind the back flywheel cover. The mag has a wire from the side going behind flywheel  and a wire coming out of same case going to the side of the back cover. Image one might not be clear but that is the one that is grounded to the side.

 

Edited April 11, 2021 by Stubby
I edited the pictures.

[Stubby 19]

On 4/11/2021 at 11:02 AM, Stubby said:

 It appears to be a solid state ignition system. Hoping that someone has schematic for the wiring of this set up.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Stubby

[Stubby 19]

It appears to be a solid state ignition system. Hoping that someone has schematic for the wiring of this set up.

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

This is what I think I know because have never seen one of thee.

If there is only one terminal on the solid state unit that is where the wire to the ignition switch M terminal would go.

If there is a 2nd wire coming from the solid state unit that would be the ground wire for the unit. 

What I would do is remove the ignition wire from the coil terminal until you determine the solid state unit produces spark and the engine runs. The ignition wire is simply a kill wire to shut the ignition off by grounding that terminal to the chassis ground.

Do not allow any battery voltage into that ignition wire. It will destroy the solid state unit.

No sense wasting resources on the coil if it does not work because they are no longer available. 

Since the coil has been removed from the engine go through the steps to get it remounted and the pin clearances reset for proper timing. That is explained in the manual.

 

If the engine has a charging stator behind the flywheel it should have 2 wires coming out from that making a total of 3 wires - 2 wires for charging and the 1 ignition wire exiting the engine.

 

Garry

 

[Stubby 19]

8 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

This is what I think I know because have never seen one of thee.

If there is only one terminal on the solid state unit that is where the wire to the ignition switch M terminal would go.

If there is a 2nd wire coming from the solid state unit that would be the ground wire for the unit. 

What I would do is remove the ignition wire from the coil terminal until you determine the solid state unit produces spark and the engine runs. The ignition wire is simply a kill wire to shut the ignition off by grounding that terminal to the chassis ground.

Do not allow any battery voltage into that ignition wire. It will destroy the solid state unit.

No sense wasting resources on the coil if it does not work because they are no longer available. 

Since the coil has been removed from the engine go through the steps to get it remounted and the pin clearances reset for proper timing. That is explained in the manual.

 

If the engine has a charging stator behind the flywheel it should have 2 wires coming out from that making a total of 3 wires - 2 wires for charging and the 1 ignition wire exiting the engine.

 

Garry

 

The ignition does not have a M on it. This sounds like a big ole pain in the butt. This does not have a coil nor can I find anywhere it was mounted. But it does have a starter relay/solenoid. I was able to jump the starter relay with a screwdriver and it started.

Edited April 15, 2021 by Stubby

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,045]

On 4/11/2021 at 11:02 AM, Stubby said:

Ok here are the pictures. I see two wires going behind the back flywheel cover. The mag has a wire from the side going behind flywheel  and a wire coming out of same case going to the side of the back cover. Image one might not be clear but that is the one that is grounded to the side.

 

That is the magneto in these pictures and it contains the coil.

If it started and ran on it's own you are away the the races.

You do need a 103991 ignition switch which will control the starter solenoid and shut off the ignition.

Click on the drawing in this link

Garry