48MS01 Spindle and pulley confusion

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

I took apart the deck tonight because it was getting noisy.

 

I found the center spindle double pulley was 'moving' around.  The keyway in the shaft is all knackered.  The bore of the pulley is tapered about 25 thousandths top to bottom. I don't know how this is possible as the nut was TIGHT.  But it is, so I need to replace.

 

So as long as it's all apart I'm going to rebuild stuff.

 

The two OUTER spindles have the BIG nutz on them and the shafts are 3/4".  Those need the weird 6203 -  12  bearings for the 3/4" shaft, got  it.

 

The CENTER spindle is DIFFERENT than the two outers.  It has the 1-1/8" nut at the blade.  The shaft mic's to 3/4" but needs replaced because it is damaged in addition to the pulley.

 

So, let's say I bite the bullet and order a NEW spindle assembly part number 111726.  Will this NEW spindle have a keyway or no?  I think NOT?  is this correct?  But it will still be a 3/4" shaft?  or will it be 17mm metric?

 

I know that I can use the keyed center pulley with an unkeyed 3/4" shaft, per the service bulletin, but I'm concerned that this NEW 111726 I plan to purchase will have a 17 mm shaft.

 

I am so friggin confused...

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[daveoman1966 3,745]

I have to agree that the spindle assy 111726 will NOT use the keyed shaft.  The shaft that is part of that assy is part # 112674 which does NOT have a keyway slot.  The top of the shaft is 5/8 dia for the pulley to fit, but the shaft is 3/4' dia at the bearing.  In other words, the shaft steps down from 3/4" dia to 5/8" dia...giving rise to a shoulder on the shaft for the pulley to 'pinch' against.  Here is a pic of the 111726 spindle assy...

This is the parts list for the 111726 spindle assy:  

You can get that sp[indle assy here for $115...  https://www.psep1.biz/arinet.asp?aribrand=TO#/Toro_Consumer/78425%2c_42"_Recycler_Mower%2c_1994_(SN_490001-499999)/Spindle__Blade_Assembly/5ba2b047-9dca-452b-802c-8b39a40e9893/147a74b4-3d6d-4f87-855f-797d75a95feb

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by daveoman1966

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

7 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

The top of the shaft is 5/8 dia for the pulley to fit

 

Thanks Dave, but now I'm still confused.  I thought the pulley bores were .75"

 

Are you saying that the 106073 center pulley will NOT fit the 111726 spindle assembly because that pulley has a 3/4" bore and the shaft at that point is 5/8"

 

If that's true, what pulley do I need?

 

When you say 5/8" do you mean 17mm?

Or actually 5/8"?

Where do the 17mm bearings come into play?

 

 

Edited April 2, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[squonk 41,039]

I remember having a similar problem years ago. I think I got a service replacement spindle assembly complete with new pulley.

 

[squonk 41,039]

Found my receipt:  111726 spindle and 110146 pulley

[daveoman1966 3,745]

Double center pulley 106073 uses a KEYWAY...it is 3/4" bore and for a 48" deck.  

Double center pullley110147 DOES NOT use the keyway and is for 5/8" bore (17mm) for 48" deck. (pic below)

 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

@daveoman1966So you're telling me that I've ordered the wrong pulley then...  that sucks.

 

And, if I wanted to replace ALL THREE of the spindles with the 111726 I would need ALL THREE new pulleys?

 

What's the part number for the SINGLE pulley that would fit the 111726 spindle?  @squonk Is that the 110146 ?

 

So, to recap, the 111726 spindle assembly uses the 110147 double center pulley, the 110146 single pulley, and these spindles use the standard 6203 bearing with the 17mm bore.  ALL CORRECT?  

 

I wish that there was a "WHERE USED" listing for deck and spindle parts.  But maybe there is?  Wonder how Garry does it?  @admin

Edited April 2, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[squonk 41,039]

I could have sworn the pulley I replaced was the center double pulley but it was like 8 years ago. 110146 is the single pulley. Perhaps I was billed the incorrect part # 

[daveoman1966 3,745]

I hope this doesn't confuse further, but here is an Excel SS depicting the difference between the early Spindle ASSEMBLY 108848(Keyed) and the later model for 42 & 48" decks ASSEMBLY # 111726 (N0-Key).  The TOP half of this SS is for early (thru 1983) 42 and 48 deck models 05-42MS01, 02, and 03 and 05-48MS01, 02, and 03 (all keyed).  The lower half depicts the later models (start 1984) 05-42/48MS 04 and 05 which DO NOT use keyways.   RED highlites differences  

SP 42 & 48 MS01-MS05.xlsx

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

7 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

doesn't confuse further

 

THANK YOU DAVE!

 

No!  Not at all, in fact that's exactly what I've been trying to find!  If this isn't in the files section it should be!  If it's there already I couldn't find it!

 

I'm on my tablet now but later I'm going over this in detail and may have a few questions if you don't mind.

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

@daveoman1966

 

OK, here's my questions:

 

The PRE '84 have the BIG nut and the smaller one.  My deck outers both have the BIG nut.  The center had the smaller.

I suspect (almost certain) that the center was replaced, along with the center pulley by the previous owner.  I believe that the center pulley and shaft were buggered up and 'repaired' by the changing of the shaft and pulley but they f'd it up and at some point it got loose again and got buggered again.  Funny thing is that the nut on top was TIGHT!  Wonder how that could have happened? 

 

I'm going to look over the old spindle carefully.

 

I got the machine in '93.  It's an '80 model.

 

Here's a possibility for why it got buggered the second time.  It's possible that the first repair was done between '84 and when I got it.  Perhaps the repair person installed the 5/8 newer shaft with the WRONG pulley, the 106073 instead of the CORRECT pulley (110147) and just muscled down the nut and said "f" it.  Maybe they changed the bearings too... I'll find out when I do some exploratory surgery.

I digress...

 

 

 

As I now understand it, these PRE '84 spindle assemblies are these:

 

 

The parts books I got with my machine list the spindle assembly as the 107405.

 

So the EARLY decks had the spindle with the large nut, then Wheel Horse changed that design to the small nut, and 107413 is the number for the 3/4" shaft with the small nut?  Is that correct?

(I don't see a part number for the shaft with the big nut, but it lists the 107413 and the picture in the book has the smaller nut)

 

 

So the spindle assembly 107405 was the 3/4" shaft with the BIG nut, correct?

 

And the 108848 spindle assembly was the SAME with the exception of the size of the nut at the bottom of the shaft, correct?

 

The START 1984 portion is self explanatory... and that's where I'm going to end up with this rebuild.  Three new spindles and three new pulleys.

 

ONE MORE Q,  Where was spindle shaft 108849 used, and what are those dimensions?

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[daveoman1966 3,745]

44 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

@daveoman1966

 

OK, here's my questions:

 

The PRE '84 have the BIG nut and the smaller one.  My deck outers both have the BIG nut.  The center had the smaller.

I suspect (almost certain) that the center was replaced, along with the center pulley by the previous owner.  I believe that the center pulley and shaft were buggered up and 'repaired' by the changing of the shaft and pulley but they f'd it up and at some point it got loose again and got buggered again.  Funny thing is that the nut on top was TIGHT!  Wonder how that could have happened? Maybe... what we call a FUBAR.

 

I'm going to look over the old spindle carefully.

 

I got the machine in '93.  It's an '80 model.

 

Here's a possibility for why it got buggered the second time.  It's possible that the first repair was done between '84 and when I got it.  Perhaps the repair person installed the 5/8 newer shaft with the WRONG pulley, the 106073 instead of the CORRECT pulley (110147) and just muscled down the nut and said "f" it.  Maybe they changed the bearings too... I'll find out when I do some exploratory surgery.  FUBAR...again.  Very likely.  

I digress...

 

 

 

As I now understand it, these PRE '84 spindle assemblies are these:  CORRECT...both use Woodruff Keys.

 

 

The parts books I got with my machine list the spindle assembly as the 107045.  You mean 107405...(NOT 107045).  In any case, Assy 108848 (small nut) and Assy 107405 (large nut) are fully interchangeable.  Only diff is the nut size.  

 

So the EARLY decks had the spindle with the large nut, then Wheel Horse changed that design to the small nut, and 107413 is the number for the 3/4" shaft with the small nut?  Is that correct?  Can't be sure of dates...but the earlier shaft 107413 is replaced by shaft 108849.  

(I don't see a part number for the shaft with the big nut, but it lists the 107413 and the picture in the book has the smaller nut)

 

 

So the spindle assembly 107405 was the 3/4" shaft with the BIG nut, correct?  YES

 

And the 108848 spindle assembly was the SAME with the exception of the size of the nut at the bottom of the shaft, correct?  YES...again. 

 

The START 1984 portion is self explanatory... and that's where I'm going to end up with this rebuild.  Three new spindles and three new pulleys.

 

ONE MORE Q,  Where was spindle shaft 108849 used, and what are those dimensions?  As noted above, the shaft 108849 is a replacement of 107413...  It is 3/4 shaft...top & bottom.  

 

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

@daveoman1966

 

Sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar!  Thank you again for taking the time to explain this all... I REALLY appreciate it very much!

 

Now, I better print this out or else I'll forget it tomorrow!

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,199]

@daveoman1966

 

I did a little exploratory surgery on the center spindle that failed, only to find that it was worse than I thought.

 

 

In addition to the center shaft and pulley being FUBAR'd, so is the BOTTOM of all three housings.  They are not useable, even as spares.

The bearings were not 'terrible' though, a little loose, but smooth and quiet and still had some life to them.

 

I believe that the center pulley and shaft were damaged because the top nut was never tight ENOUGH to keep the pulley from 'rocking' on the shaft.  Started as a few thousandths and gradually got worse over the intervening 30 years.

 

Once the key and keyway got sufficiently buggered up, the pulley took to rockin' and rollin' and the wear accelerated rapidly.

 

 

The bore of the pulley is MUCH more worn than the shaft but that is surely due to softer material.

 

Anyway... new spindles and pulleys are mounted, deck is going back together.  Should be complete by this weekend I hope.

 

[Horse Newbie 7,057]

Man...

I have been reading all the threads on Red Square that I can find on decks( rebuilding and service), spindles(rebuilding and service), and I am a little overwhelmed !

Guess I'll slow my roll, do more research to gain understanding, and proceed with caution as I restore my 1994, 48 inch, side discharge, Model # 78360 deck.

@Jeff-C175 , @daveoman1966 , @squonk , you all please stop by under the "implements and attachments" forum and help me out.

I started a topic there called 48 inch Side Discharge Deck Restoration...

PLEASE HELP !!!  Thanks guys !!!!

Edited May 17, 2021 by Horse Newbie