Lets talk balance gear failures...

[pfrederi 17,741]

There are a lot of posts about balance gears in Kohler singles.  I think it is time we tried to gather some solid data not just internet rumors about balance gear failures.  There is no doubt some fail.  Question is what ones.  Kohler had two styles of balance gears old and new.  Recent reports on here of failures appear to be the old style.   The new style was also used in Magnum singles, but I haven't see many comments about failure there.

 

So if you had a failure or knocking noise what engine was it in and was it old or new....

 

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[roadapples 6,983]

Does this give any serial  numbers or year of which one has what....

[pfrederi 17,741]

Since they may have been upgraded you have to look at the picture or at least have the spec number

[oliver2-44 9,761]

Great Thread.

Interested to see if any Magnums have had failures!

 

I have a 1979 C161

Kohler 16hp, K341AS

Spec 71246

Serial # 9681626 

Old Style Balance Gears That Failed. 

[WHX?? 48,828]

@squonk @Greentored

I ever do an engine with them I will leave them out and worry about Green's reported 2K RPM buzz later.

'Sides I need to get a buzz on somehow and will run her @ WOT +. 

Interested in some schooling here tho as a good Kohler wrench should. Never did a motor with them in but hinging my bet I will someday. 

[squonk 41,155]

@WHX24 Check out my piston on the hand grenade thread of you haven't yet

[pfrederi 17,741]

3 minutes ago, oliver2-44 said:

Great Thread.

Interested to see if any Magnums have had failures!

 

I have a 1979 C161

Kohler 16hp, K341AS

Spec 71246

Serial # 9681626 

Old Style Balance Gears That Failed. 

Thank you that is the kind of info we need.

 

[WHX?? 48,828]

34 minutes ago, squonk said:

@WHX24 Check out my piston on the hand grenade thread of you haven't yet

I did .... you didn't really say if the balance gears did indeed lift yer skirt? 

[squonk 41,155]

Ball gears were still in place. Also the broken side of piston was toward the can side away from the gears

[Greentored 3,214]

GREAT INFO and a great 'why' addition to my 'what' thread.

Am very interested in 'hearing' about any Magnum series gear issues, if there are- they definitely do not seem to have the problems the Ks did when it comes to this.

 

[squonk 41,155]

Here is the tag off of the engine I'm working on.

 

[meadowfield 2,570]

when I rebuilt my magnum 16 - which stored most of the crankcase oil on top of the piston and in the exhaust, I removed the balance gears. The needle bearings in them collapsed as I pulled it apart and some of the sharp swarf on the drain plug was no doubt some of the outer edge of the small torrington bearings.

Engine still runs fine - I've no doubt the gears would have failed as the bearings gave up!

[pfrederi 17,741]

5 minutes ago, meadowfield said:

when I rebuilt my magnum 16 - which stored most of the crankcase oil on top of the piston and in the exhaust, I removed the balance gears. The needle bearings in them collapsed as I pulled it apart and some of the sharp swarf on the drain plug was no doubt some of the outer edge of the small torrington bearings.

Engine still runs fine - I've no doubt the gears would have failed as the bearings gave up!

According to the manual the new style balance gears had uncaged needle bearings.  You are warned that they may drop out as you remove the bearing.  They nicely tell you there are 27 needles in each bearing so you can make sure you found them all...

[meadowfield 2,570]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

According to the manual the new style balance gears had uncaged needle bearings.  You are warned that they may drop out as you remove the bearing.  They nicely tell you there are 27 needles in each bearing so you can make sure you found them all...

 

I missed that!  but for sure the swarf was like antlers and definitely not rings, and clearly no shells on the rod. So I assumed it was part of the bearing...

 

Edited March 31, 2021 by meadowfield

[squonk 41,155]

Small piece a balance gear needle perhaps? 

 

[meadowfield 2,570]

3 minutes ago, squonk said:

Small piece a balance gear needle perhaps? 

 

 

wow!  whats that? piston skirt?

[squonk 41,155]

32 minutes ago, meadowfield said:

 

wow!  whats that? piston skirt?

 

[pacer 3,173]

Off hand dont really have s/n on my K341 but is on a 78 model....

 

Similar to other stories, I started noticing an .... odd/different? rattle? in my engine. Didnt sound like loose rod or piston slap, etc, I was pretty familiar with those. Was a good engine, ran strong, no oil burn etc, but that noise worried me and I tore into it. As soon as I dropped the pan it was glaringly clear what the "rattle" was --- Yep, the (in)famous balance gears were so sloppy it was amazing that they hadnt 'grenaded'. A quick check of other components showed good, so I just removed the worn gears and bolted her back up, that was some 2 yrs ago. Obviously the 'rattle' was gone and while I tried to determine if there was more/less vibration, I just couldnt tell. This engine was on another 'quirky' add on, it was on 'shaker' motor mounts and to me all they do is to MAKE it shake.....

[pfrederi 17,741]

1 hour ago, pacer said:

Off hand dont really have s/n on my K341 but is on a 78 model....

 

Similar to other stories, I started noticing an .... odd/different? rattle? in my engine. Didnt sound like loose rod or piston slap, etc, I was pretty familiar with those. Was a good engine, ran strong, no oil burn etc, but that noise worried me and I tore into it. As soon as I dropped the pan it was glaringly clear what the "rattle" was --- Yep, the (in)famous balance gears were so sloppy it was amazing that they hadnt 'grenaded'. A quick check of other components showed good, so I just removed the worn gears and bolted her back up, that was some 2 yrs ago. Obviously the 'rattle' was gone and while I tried to determine if there was more/less vibration, I just couldnt tell. This engine was on another 'quirky' add on, it was on 'shaker' motor mounts and to me all they do is to MAKE it shake.....

 

 

Do you remember if  the balance gears looked like old style or new??

[pacer 3,173]

5 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

if  the balance gears looked like old style or new??

 

Before I wrote that I tried to pull up from my aging brain which they were, but could only vaguely remember them being the 'old' type. This happened at least a couple yrs ago, soooo?

[pfrederi 17,741]

5 minutes ago, pacer said:

 

Before I wrote that I tried to pull up from my aging brain which they were, but could only vaguely remember them being the 'old' type. This happened at least a couple yrs ago, soooo?

 

 

i wish I knew for sure when the balance gears were changed.  All I have figured out so far is based on the before/after serial number related to the bearings. (looked at 12, 14 and 16hp  all were in 960000 series) That would indicate the change was made in 1979.

[richmondred01 2,237]

On 3/30/2021 at 6:18 PM, oliver2-44 said:

Great Thread.

Interested to see if any Magnums have had failures!

 

I have a 1979 C161

Kohler 16hp, K341AS

Spec 71246

Serial # 9681626 

Old Style Balance Gears That Failed. 

yes I’ve seen plenty of failures with the magnum balance gears.