New rectifier for 1977 c160

[krystolo 504]

I think I may need a new rectifier. Batteries keep going dead on me after just a few starts. 
Also wonder if it’s just corrosion at the lead attachments. One attachment is just about rusted off. 
 

Sources for a new one? Worth trying to clean up the old one?

 

Thanks!

 

[ebinmaine 67,695]

It's extremely important to remember that these are 12 volt DC systems and if you don't have GOOD GROUND EVERYWHERE you have no complete circuit.

 

I would DEFINITELY remove the old voltage regulator first and clean it and its mounts all up. Run a ground from one of the mounting bolts to the negative battery cable.

 

If you don't already have one get ahold of an inexpensive volt meter and be sure to check the voltage coming out of the engine. 

 

 

[krystolo 504]

Awesome! I’ll give it a shot. Looks like the PO bypassed the ammeter. Is it important, or ok to continue to bypass?

[Handy Don 12,244]

It is amazing how much electrical resistance a bit of rust or corrosion can cause. 

I've become a devotee of dielectric grease applied to connections after I clean them.

[Handy Don 12,244]

1 minute ago, krystolo said:

Awesome! I’ll give it a shot. Looks like the PO bypassed the ammeter. Is it important, or ok to continue to bypass?

Bypass won't affect operation.

I'd wonder why, though, since if it's working it tells you if the system is charging or discharging. 

May have been more poor connections since it's kinda tough to break an ammeter with the power available in a tractor.

If it is dead, you may want to replace it with a voltmeter so you can keep tabs on whether or not you are charging.

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,055]

If you end up with the regulator off and one of the AC terminals is wasted see if that one is connected to the DC terminal inside the regulator. Use an ohmmeter to do that and look for 0 ohms. One AC terminal is connected directly to the DC and one is not.

If it is you can connect one AC wire (does not matter which one) to the DC wire and the regulator will work.

 

Garry

[ebinmaine 67,695]

I'm NOT a fan of ammeters. 

 

A shorted one will burn down the tractor and everything around it. 

 

I use volt meters instead. 

[pacer 3,174]

27 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I'm NOT a fan of ammeters. 

 

A shorted one will burn down the tractor and everything around it. 

 

I use volt meters instead. 

 

Hear, Hear!! I recently bought a D200 and (typically) the wiring was a mess - all indications pointing to the Ammeter and the safety switch on the PTO. I ripped all the safety switches out (only 1 appeared to be still functional) and rewired back with a basic 'on/off/start system using a VOLTMETER!! 

 

Also found the rectifier had taken a beating and the conx were corroded and had heat indicating getting to them, I replaced the rectifier also.

 

Pull the rectifier connector loose and check for around 30volts AC  at the 2 side by side wires, this is what the stator should be putting out. The 3rd wire is for the DC volts coming out of the rect. The stator (to my knowledge) rarely fails, but the rectifier is pretty common to failure (usually traced back to the ammeter)

 

[peter lena 8,647]

krystolo , biggest gain made on electrical related issues was to increase engine to frame and ground rail along side of battery , ist photo and last photo , note cable from engine corner , bolted to ground rail . insuring ground to dash related functions. also add a separate ground wire from rectifier to engine block / frame. since going heavy on grounding , no more electrical issues, pete 

 

[krystolo 504]

2 hours ago, Handy Don said:

It is amazing how much electrical resistance a bit of rust or corrosion can cause. 

I've become a devotee of dielectric grease applied to connections after I clean them.

These things are very rusty. Especially the one that’s partially broken off. Will need to get it out for full inspection and testing. Will def get some dielectric grease for better conduction!

[peter lena 8,647]

KRYSTOLO, obviously you have a number of corrosive areas , do you have any alligator clip jumper wires? that will let you   complete a problem spot? learned long ago , to verify power flow ,and do a fresh rewire , with cable wrap tp prevent chafing , make wider sweeps to prevent problems. do not hesitate to improve on any area and make it very reliable. good luck with your project, pete 

[krystolo 504]

3 hours ago, gwest_ca said:

If you end up with the regulator off and one of the AC terminals is wasted see if that one is connected to the DC terminal inside the regulator. Use an ohmmeter to do that and look for 0 ohms. One AC terminal is connected directly to the DC and one is not.

If it is you can connect one AC wire (does not matter which one) to the DC wire and the regulator will work.

 

Garry

Here’s what I’ve got. I am not adept with the MM. 

im guessing the right side connector is blown. Or maybe it’s the left, since there’s a lot of resistance?  Lol, I’m a hot mess over here. 
so do I connect the ac and dc wires together, then shove them into the connector, then attach? 

Edited March 28, 2021 by krystolo

[krystolo 504]

I just checked the brand new battery, and it is down to 0.1 V. How does that even happen?? 
is it possible to recharge the battery, or is it garbage? 
 

thanks!

[Handy Don 12,244]

The Ω function on most meters is polarized. This means the current flows in one direction "out one probe and in the other" so to speak.

 

To test a rectifier, as part of a voltage regulator, you have to check from each AC input (looks like the "upper" connectors on yours) to the DC output in both directions. That means getting readings with the red probe on the DC and the black probe on the AC and then switching the probes to test "in the other direction".

 

When doing this you have to take a bunch of readings.

 

First, test each pair of connections separately both ways by reversing the probes. Keep track of how the probes were configured for each test (red on AC vs red on DC, for example):

If you have 0 Ω in both directions--bad.

If you have very high Ω in both directions--bad.

If you have 0 in one direction and small (like your 6Ω) in the other probably ok on that side.

 

Once finished with the tests, and both sides have a "probably ok", check your notes. The two tests that had Probably OK should have one test with the red probe on DC and the other test with the black probe on DC.

 

If not. Time for a new regulator.

 

Hope this makes sense!

 

Edited March 28, 2021 by Handy Don

[Handy Don 12,244]

Unlikely that a new battery is fatally ruined, but you probably want an external charger/conditioner to bring it back to life. These are commonly available  wherever you do your internet shopping or at places like tractor supply or Walmart!

Edited March 28, 2021 by Handy Don

[krystolo 504]

Results of the testing. 

[Handy Don 12,244]

9 minutes ago, krystolo said:

Results of the testing. 

So this seems to confirm your earlier assessment. The AC connection with 10 and ∞ is good. The one with 4 and 4 is bad.

As someone suggested, you can get by with only one good one. You can disconnect the bad one (and tape it to keep it from shorting against anything) as a temporary workaround until you get a new regulator. This cuts the generating capability in half, though. It is still enough to run the machine and charge the battery if run for, say, 30 minutes or so at a shot. But I suggest no lights or cigarette lighter usage !

Progress!

Edited March 28, 2021 by Handy Don

[Handy Don 12,244]

Should have added that the bad AC side on the regulator was not only preventing the battery from charging, it was draining your battery when the engine was stopped.

[krystolo 504]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

Should have added that the bad AC side on the regulator was not only preventing the battery from charging, it was draining your battery when the engine was stopped.

No wonder it died in a day!

[krystolo 504]

Ok, got the thing rewired, so it’s at least not draining, but now I can’t get it to start even with jumping from the car battery. Cranks, but doesn’t turn over. 
is there enough CCA in the car battery?

Where else should I check?

Good spark at the point. Checked spark plug (new) and it’s already pretty blackened. Cleaned it up a bit. 
 

 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,055]

Here is how the regulators are wired. Wheel Horse did use the 2-wire system on some models.

[pfrederi 17,741]

42 minutes ago, krystolo said:

Ok, got the thing rewired, so it’s at least not draining, but now I can’t get it to start even with jumping from the car battery. Cranks, but doesn’t turn over. 
is there enough CCA in the car battery?

Where else should I check?

Good spark at the point. Checked spark plug (new) and it’s already pretty blackened. Cleaned it up a bit. 
 

 

Need to get some terminology straight.  Cranking is general meant to mean when you turn the key the engines spins... Now if it the engine spins but doesn't start running on its own it is another issue remove the spark plug lay it on the head and turn the key to start.  Engine should spin..does the spark plug spark???

[krystolo 504]

48 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

Here is how the regulators are wired. Wheel Horse did use the 2-wire system on some models.

I have a 3 wire, but one of the ac is bad, so I made it into a 2 wire for now. 

[krystolo 504]

41 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Need to get some terminology straight.  Cranking is general meant to mean when you turn the key the engines spins... Now if it the engine spins but doesn't start running on its own it is another issue remove the spark plug lay it on the head and turn the key to start.  Engine should spin..does the spark plug spark???

Right.  When I have it hooked up to the car battery with jumper cables (because the battery is kaput), the engine will spin, but won’t run. 
Did not check for spark at spark plug before I left the farm, but did notice it was oily when I pulled it out. 
There was a spark at the point when I tested it with a MM, so I believe voltage is getting there. 

[Handy Don 12,244]

16 minutes ago, krystolo said:

I have a 3 wire, but one of the ac is bad, so I made it into a 2 wire for now. 

 

1 hour ago, gwest_ca said:

Here is how the regulators are wired. Wheel Horse did use the 2-wire system on some models.

@gwest_ca, did this apply to regulators made for three wire or were they built as 2-wire regulators. To me, this wiring looks like it could overdrive the coil.

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Handy Don