Bubble balancer for car tires...?

[ebinmaine 67,695]

BBT and I are looking at getting a bubble balancer for our own vehicles.

 

Any thoughts comments suggestions are appreciated.

[Pullstart 62,922]

My thoughts?  Meh.  They can tell you what part of the tire is heavy and light, but not where it will best balance.  Sometimes there are two spots within inches that could be balanced better than one spot in the middle.  Also, inside vs outside matters too.

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

28 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

BBT and I are looking at getting a bubble balancer for our own vehicles.

 

Any thoughts comments suggestions are appreciated.

My granddad had a ford dealership. Used it for years before there where any machines. Works pretty well. just not as accurate as the expensive machines.

She still working so a + for reliablilty.

 

like @pullstart mentioned those special machines show exactly how much grams you have to add where.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[ebinmaine 67,695]

1 minute ago, pullstart said:

inside vs outside matters

That is one of our concerns. 

If the wheel is flipped does the information change to the "up-facing" side?

 

One thing to keep in mind is that Maine has pretty rough roads so being perfect isn't as much of a thing as in some places. 

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

23 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

If the wheel is flipped does the information change to the "up-facing" side?

No.  It worked good on those older cars +30 years old,which weren't that precisely made in the first place. don't know about modern cars.

[8ntruck 7,022]

A bubble balancer will get you close for static balance.  It won't do a thing about dynamic balance, the effects of which show up at higher speeds. 

 

Also, modern tires are usually marked for match mounting.  This came about when tire pressures were raised to improve gas mileage, which made them ride rougher.  Tires do not have a constant spring rate as you roll them.  To compensate for that and make the ride smoother,  the center hole in wheels are placed slightly off center (generally towards the valve hole) so that the stiffer part of the tire can be matched up with the low point on the wheel.  A pound of force variation in a tire can be compensated by a .001" offset in the center hole of a wheel.

[Handy Don 12,244]

3 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

A bubble balancer will get you close for static balance.  It won't do a thing about dynamic balance, the effects of which show up at higher speeds. 

 

Also, modern tires are usually marked for match mounting.  This came about when tire pressures were raised to improve gas mileage, which made them ride rougher.  Tires do not have a constant spring rate as you roll them.  To compensate for that and make the ride smoother,  the center hole in wheels are placed slightly off center (generally towards the valve hole) so that the stiffer part of the tire can be matched up with the low point on the wheel.  A pound of force variation in a tire can be compensated by a .001" offset in the center hole of a wheel.

Dang, something I'll have to ask about when I get my next set of tires! A thousandth here and a thousandth there apparently makes a big difference!

[midpack 866]

I have my Dads old one from his body shop business, used it many times back in the 70's

 

We used lead weights and would place 2 of equal weight on the rim to get balance. One for both sides of the rim.

[troutbum70 857]

Look at centrimatic wheel balancers, keeps everything in balance as you drive.

[Ed Kennell 38,248]

IMO     Static balance is OK for 10MPH tractor tires and mower blades.         Dynamic balance  is needed for 120MPH Mehn drivers.

 

And no, a bubble does not  know  inside from outside on a tire.     

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

24 minutes ago, troutbum63 said:

centrimatic wheel balancers

 

Looks to be the same tech they use on top loader washing machines.

 

Doesn't look like they are available for passenger cars though?

[Ed Kennell 38,248]

It appears  the  Centrimatic  balancer corrects dynamic unbalance, but like a static bubble balancer, does not differentiate between inside and outside unbalance.

Edited March 24, 2021 by Ed Kennell

[tom2p 2,394]

as others have stated - bubble balancer is not as good as the current spin balancers 

 

but I've seen fairly good results with bubble balancers ... including on old 4wd trucks with oversized tires that would shake significantly due to an out of balance condition 

 

and some tire shops in my area that see a lot of volume - including a NTB and Pep Boys - have spin balancers that need calibrated or replaced  ... a bubble balancer would be as almost as good ... or maybe better 

 

[ebinmaine 67,695]

2 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

IMO     Static balance is OK for 10MPH tractor tires and mower blades.         Dynamic balance  is needed for 120MPH Mehn drivers.

.     

 

so let me dig into that one a little bit deeper and go halfway between those two numbers above.

 

Most of the time our driving is at about 60 miles an hour for 12 to 15 miles. Then it drops down to about 45 to 50 miles for another 15 or 20 miles...

 

Most of the roads here in Maine are not built well enough to withstand Frost more than two or three years so they're in pretty rough shape a lot of the time.

 

Comments very one way or the other above. Thank you all for your input.

 

The general idea here is that we get our tires changed out twice a year and it cost us $48 or more just to get them balanced. Twice. Per car. We run three cars....

 

On my own SUV I've been running snow tires for 2 or 3 years in a row not wanting to take the time or expense to buy less aggressive treads for the 5 months a year I would want them.

They seem to be doing fine.

 

 

 

Am I correct in my thinking that maybe the best way to go about it is to just try it and see what happens?

[squonk 41,164]

Unless it's an old farm truck run once in a while on dirt roads, I wouldn't even consider a bubble balancer. Tires are expensive enough. Most tire shops include mount and balance in the price anyway. I'd rather sit in a lawn chair and wait for my tires to be spun balanced. Throw the bubble away unless you like antiques in your shop.

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

Just now, squonk said:

Throw the bubble away

 

Or use it on your mower blades.

[ebinmaine 67,695]

1 minute ago, squonk said:

Unless it's an old farm truck run once in a while on dirt roads, I wouldn't even consider a bubble balancer. Tires are expensive enough. Most tire shops include mount and balance in the price anyway. I'd rather sit in a lawn chair and wait for my tires to be spun balanced. Throw the bubble away unless you like antiques in your shop.

 

 

Unfortunately we don't have good access to a tire shop that can come anywhere near comparison in price to what Trina can buy them online.

 

I've tried Wally world. Won't go back.

I've had friends that have gone to the big box tire places and been less than impressed as well.

 

 

[Pullstart 62,922]

Why not get a set of steel wheels for winter tires?  A bit more up front, but I’d say you can handle the changing part for no labor cost = savings over time...

[ebinmaine 67,695]

6 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Why not get a set of steel wheels for winter tires?  A bit more up front, but I’d say you can handle the changing part for no labor cost = savings over time...

Apparently we were bright enough to choose vehicles that don't have inexpensive Wheels available.

 

It's been at least a couple years since we've looked so things may have changed and we should look again.

We were finding prices to be in the $80 per wheel range and then you have to pay somebody to mount and balance them the first time around so you're at $100 investment times four.

[Ed Kennell 38,248]

 

This is the model Bear balancer I used for 45 years to balance small hydro turbine runners.       Using a floating bearing spark gap system at each end of the shaft, it measured the amount, the radial location and the axial location for the weight necessary to balance the item.     I could not add  weight, so I removed weight by drilling  holes .    These bronze runners were up to 24" dia., 20" wide, weighed 100lb., and ran at 2000RPM.

They had non contact seals with 0.002-3" radial clearance, so it required a perfect dynamic balance.      

 

And I do understand Eric,   your balance requirement is clearly  on the other end of this  spectrum.       I just offer this info to show what can be done.  

 

 

[Pullstart 62,922]

12 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Apparently we were bright enough to choose vehicles that don't have inexpensive Wheels available.

 

It's been at least a couple years since we've looked so things may have changed and we should look again.

We were finding prices to be in the $80 per wheel range and then you have to pay somebody to mount and balance them the first time around so you're at $100 investment times four.

any decent junk yards nearby?  We have a few different “pick your part” yards with LKQ being the largest group.  They have very good prices on used stuff.

[ebinmaine 67,695]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

 

This is the model Bear balancer I used for 45 years to balance small hydro turbine runners.       Using a floating bearing spark gap system at each end of the shaft, it measured the amount, the radial location and the axial location for the weight necessary to balance the item.     I could not add  weight, so I removed weight by drilling  holes .    These bronze runners were up to 24" dia., 20" wide, weighed 100lb., and ran at 2000RPM.

They had non contact seals with 0.002-3" radial clearance, so it required a perfect dynamic balance.      

 

And I do understand Eric,   your balance requirement is clearly  on the other end of this  spectrum.       I just offer this info to show what can be done.  

 

 

That's pretty awesome. 

[ebinmaine 67,695]

1 hour ago, pullstart said:

any decent junk yards nearby?  We have a few different “pick your part” yards with LKQ being the largest group.  They have very good prices on used stuff.

 

I do have a few decent yards around. 

 

Issue is, the "pre-loved" wheels are high in demand for exactly the reason you suggested... Hence the used oe wheels are about the same price as the new cheeepos. 

 

[lynnmor 7,315]

I have this on the vehicle balancer:

 

 

The strobe light shows the position of the weight needed and the meter gives an approximation of the imbalance.  After several retests, the balance can be brought in even better than the fancy balancers made today.  Since brakes and bolt patterns are less than perfect, this balancer takes into account the entire rotating assemble.  They haven't been sold for many years because the tire shops want fast and these take some time.  In addition, the front wheel drives, all wheel drives and minimal clearance under todays cars make this balancer limited in application.  The drive systems and large tires are quite a load to spin up to test.  I use it for trailer tires, easy to use on them and trailer hubs and brake drums haven't been factory balanced in the past quarter century.  I do get a kick out of the experts on RV forums thinking they are getting precision balancing on their trailers.  I have had brake drums out of balance by 5.5 ounces.

[JoeM 7,874]

1 hour ago, lynnmor said:

The strobe light shows the position of the weight needed and the meter gives an approximation of the imbalance.

Pretty nice machine, I used one 45 or so years ago in the garage where i worked.

Like you pointed out it will balance the entire rotating unit. Plus, cord separation and out of round conditions are easy to find using those balancers.