This is why I usually do my own maintenance.

[cschannuth 3,816]

3 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Without question, there are many service departments that will take advantage.     The  Ford F-150   5.0 Coyote fiasco is a prime example of what a big manufactuer can do to force their dealers service depts. to cover up a major engineering problem.     It appears there are several problems that contribute to the excess oil consumption  in these engines.  Inadequite PCV system, poor ring assembly, a deaccelaration valve, all causing  high crankase pressure  are some things causing these engines to burn 1 qt/ 1000 mile.     

I am a lifelong Ford owner and feel personally responsible  for a good friends purchase of one of these lemons.     We took several non-stop 34 hour hunting trips to Montana in my 2010 F-150 Super Crew and he , a lifelong Dodge owner, was so impressed with the Ford performance on these trips, he bought a new 2020 F-150 SC .    

I won't list all the details here, but if interested, just google F-150  oil consumption.     

When he checked his oil level at 1000 miles, it was down a quart.     The dealer said this is normal and changed the oil...9 qts.     Same thing at 2000 miles.     Then they installed the new dip stick that has a two quart range from low to full.   This is to mask the 2 quarts it uses in 2-3000 miles and they recommend an oil change every 3000 miles... again to mask the consumption.    

My friend is 80yo and not computer literate and I am afraid he is stuck with a worthless $55,000 lemon.   I did print out the class action suit that has been filed against Ford for him,  but he all know how that ends.

We use these trucks for work and have a fleet. 5 of them have the coyote and none of them use oil.  Seems strange to me. 

[Ed Kennell 38,227]

5 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

Seems strange to me. 

It is strange, and I would not have believed it if I had not gone with my friend when he took it back at 2000 for the second oil change and the dealer told us this is normal oil consumption for this engine.

It looks like only the 2018- 2020 models are affected.

[cschannuth 3,816]

9 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

It is strange, and I would not have believed it if I had not gone with my friend when he took it back at 2000 for the second oil change and the dealer told us this is normal oil consumption for this engine.

It looks like only the 2018- 2020 models are affected.

we have been lucky so far.  Two of our trucks are in that age range and they have about 50,000 miles on them already so I’m going to keep my fingers crossed.  For the most part our guys treat the trucks pretty well so I hope that continues.

[WHNJ701 4,165]

9 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

It is strange, and I would not have believed it if I had not gone with my friend when he took it back at 2000 for the second oil change and the dealer told us this is normal oil consumption for this engine.

It looks like only the 2018- 2020 models are affected.

We had an 08 toyota rav4, that burned a quart every 1000 miles, we bought off a lease and put about another 150k miles on it.  Aside from sucking down oil, we had no issues with it.  We fought with toyota, they said it was normal, they built these engines "loose".  

[wh500special 2,187]

Some interesting comments here.

 

Just as a short update, I contacted the dealer's shop and their response was quite positive.  No doubt that they are accepting responsibility and are offering to make amends.  My principle concern was that they'd implement some kind of corrective action or training for their employees and it appears that has already begun.

 

I'm supposed to talk with the manager again later today, but for now I think they are addressing things appropriately.

 

STeve

[wh500special 2,187]

It seems that a lot of modern engines can consume a lot of oil, particularly those that implement cylinder shutdown to save fuel.  These oil consumption problems seem to hit every manufacturer and cover most size ranges of engines.

 

Until 2013 I had never had anything but a Ford of one kind or another.  Had great service from most of them.  Bought a VW diesel in 2013 which I loved.  It was the car that spoiled me on realizing that squeaks, rattles, wind noise, and things that fell off in my hand didn't have to be part of the everyday driving experience.  Had that car for 4 years and sold it back to VW when they were caught duping the EPA with their (disabling) emissions controls.  I am still mad at VW for their willful transgressions...

 

I digress....

 

Ended up with the Honda van.  Then a Honda Ridgeline.  Both have been great cars and even now that they are a few years old and have each accumulated 70k miles they are still as tight and rattle free as they were when new.  These things have held their value too which is marginally important to me since I don't keep cars forever.

 

HOWEVER, they both have the "Variable Cylinder Management" system that shuts down three of the six cylinders under light loads and certain conditions to save fuel.  These engines have a tendency to have piston ring problems on the bank of cylinders that is allowed to run cold when VCM is active.  One of the symptoms of things going bad on them is increased oil consumption.  Similar systems are used by the other manufacturers where the valves on those cylinders are held closed and the fuel injectors are turned off so the engine just bounces the pistons off the air that's trapped inside.

 

I don't think the statistical incidences of failure on these engines are very high, but it is a reality that some of them are prone to burn a lot of oil.  It doesn't seem like saving a few drops of gas at the expense of engine oil in modern cars is a good tradeoff, but what do I know?  But this seems to be an industry-wide thing now.

 

All of this and other factors are pushing us toward the electric future whether we like it or not.  Very little maintenance, no emissions (from the car itself), and reduced warranty and corrective actions required of the car manufacturers.  The cars will become disposable/recyclable (this equals repeat sales) and the supporting maintenance industry will eventually be a shadow of itself.  It's an ideal situation for the manufacturers who build cars for the new consumer anyway and view the used market as competition for new car sales.

 

I'll lament the loss of many aspects of driving on gas.  Electrification will introduce a whole litany of new problems, many of which we can easily predict.  But oil consumption and spillage from an improperly tightened filter will be in the past.  Maybe that makes it all worth it

 

Yes, I realize I just opened Pandora's box...

 

Steve

[squonk 41,155]

I did the only car maintenance I do my self today. Replaced the air and cabin filters on the wife's van and recharged the AC

[formariz 11,987]

I agree that stuff does happen to most at one time or another. It is however a sign of the times where no pride exists on ones work which is substantiated by how careless they were with trivial things. There are also lots of unscrupulous shops out there. My youngest son is a mechanic, and he has actually quit a couple of places because of their practices  refusing to do what they asked him to, essentially defrauding clients.

[squonk 41,155]

22 minutes ago, formariz said:

I agree that stuff does happen to most at one time or another. It is however a sign of the times where no pride exists on ones work which is substantiated by how careless they were with trivial things. There are also lots of unscrupulous shops out there. My youngest son is a mechanic, and he has actually quit a couple of places because of their practices  refusing to do what they asked him to, essentially defrauding clients.

I seemed to have followed one of those characters. Went to work at a place and heard all kind of stories about the guy I was replacing. 4 yrs. later, go to another shop and I'm replacing the same guy! 

Edited March 23, 2021 by squonk

[Stepney 2,325]

Old cars being my life, I never take anything .. anywhere, unless it's inspection time.

But once, just to settle a bet, i took my '85 Ford to an IffyLube..

It's a 300-6.. they simply couldn't hurt it if they tried.  

Of course they set you behind a wall these days. 

Service 'tech' popped his head in with what just happened to be a cartridge air filter from an early EFI Ford six cylinder, said I could use a new one.. it's an '87, right?

Funny, that. My PCV billows fumes on account of my fried rings, and I see no oily splotch on the filter you are holding.. it also just so happens that it is a 1985 Ford with a Carter single barrel and a ROUND air cleaner..

Guess he saw the Emissions light in the cab and figured it was an EFI model..?

Kinda saw it coming, never did help my mindset on those places though. 

Only one in the family I don't mess with is an aunt's VW, in the fact that there's about 30 tiny cap screws holding on an apron underneath, and frankly I can't be bothered to deal with it. 

 

..Occasionally service a 1928 Ford pickup, I've been tempted more than once to run it up to another Iffy and just see what happens. I do rather enjoy a good show of chaos.. 

[bc.gold 3,403]

Tire shop tossed an Ingersoll Rand T30 into the metal bin, stopped in asking if it was up for grabs.

 

All  that was wrong is the compressor was misaligned with the motor, the paint wear on the V-pulley supports this theory. With the compressor reaching the higher pressure must have struggled with the belts slipping.

 

The electric motor on my old Quincy went up in smoke a few days ago. Now I'm going to mount the Ingersoll on the 80 gallon tank and power it with a Kohlor gas engine with an unloader valve.

 

The Ingersoll T30 has been in production for well over 50 years and parts are readily available.

 

 

 

[8ntruck 7,016]

On 3/24/2021 at 8:21 PM, Stepney said:

Old cars being my life, I never take anything .. anywhere, unless it's inspection time.

But once, just to settle a bet, i took my '85 Ford to an IffyLube..

It's a 300-6.. they simply couldn't hurt it if they tried.  

Of course they set you behind a wall these days. 

Service 'tech' popped his head in with what just happened to be a cartridge air filter from an early EFI Ford six cylinder, said I could use a new one.. it's an '87, right?

Funny, that. My PCV billows fumes on account of my fried rings, and I see no oily splotch on the filter you are holding.. it also just so happens that it is a 1985 Ford with a Carter single barrel and a ROUND air cleaner..

Guess he saw the Emissions light in the cab and figured it was an EFI model..?

Kinda saw it coming, never did help my mindset on those places though. 

Only one in the family I don't mess with is an aunt's VW, in the fact that there's about 30 tiny cap screws holding on an apron underneath, and frankly I can't be bothered to deal with it. 

 

..Occasionally service a 1928 Ford pickup, I've been tempted more than once to run it up to another Iffy and just see what happens. I do rather enjoy a good show of chaos.. 

When I was using my 1957 Chevy as a daily driver while I was in college, I would sometimes pull into a full service gas station for a fill up.  More often than not, the kid attendant would wander all around the back of the car, try to look under the licence plate on the trunk lid, then finally ask where the gas cap was.

[bc.gold 3,403]

Trip out to get some cam locks for the new water pump, discovered a garage that has replaced their air compressor then at another location a pair of snow machines.

 

 

 

Edited March 26, 2021 by bcgold

[dcrage 628]

The 1qt/1000 miles oil usage being ‘normal’ reminds me of our 1996 Saturn SL1 that started doing that at 20000-30000 miles. That was the story that the dealership gave me.  I did the math and decided the quart of oil every thousand miles was worth the 30-35 mpg I was getting. We sold that car in 2015 (300,000 miles on the odometer) to the son of the mechanic who worked on it all of those years. (His independent shop, not a dealership.). The son has put another 50,000 on that car!

 

[ri702bill 8,339]

All:

We had had numerous SL1's and SL'2's in the past - a former Saturn mechanic told us the secret to controlling oil consumption on then was to ad a few ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil at each oil change. Seems the Saturn has one of only a few engines where the piston oil rings actually are designed to spin in their grooves as you drive - they can get sludged up and stop spinning, the result is that quart per 1000 mile problem. He also said at the dealership they would offer a service where the technician removed the spark plugs, added about 3 ounces of MMO per cylinder and let the car sit overnight to allow the oil to seep by the rings. They would siphon out what was left the next morning, replace the plugs get the car outside and start it - it would blow white smoke like crazy for a few minutes then clear up.

Bill

[tom2p 2,394]

14 hours ago, ri702bill said:

All:

We had had numerous SL1's and SL'2's in the past - a former Saturn mechanic told us the secret to controlling oil consumption on then was to ad a few ounces of Marvel Mystery Oil at each oil change. Seems the Saturn has one of only a few engines where the piston oil rings actually are designed to spin in their grooves as you drive - they can get sludged up and stop spinning, the result is that quart per 1000 mile problem. He also said at the dealership they would offer a service where the technician removed the spark plugs, added about 3 ounces of MMO per cylinder and let the car sit overnight to allow the oil to seep by the rings. They would siphon out what was left the next morning, replace the plugs get the car outside and start it - it would blow white smoke like crazy for a few minutes then clear up.

Bill

 

one cousin and a close work friend had Saturn coupes -  both with fairly low miles and well maintained - and both used oil

 

was a shame

 

[tom2p 2,394]

On 3/23/2021 at 9:15 AM, wh500special said:

It seems that a lot of modern engines can consume a lot of oil, particularly those that implement cylinder shutdown to save fuel.  These oil consumption problems seem to hit every manufacturer and cover most size ranges of engines.

 

I did not realize Honda used VCM on the Odyssey and Ridgeline - or any Honda / Acura engine 

 

smh have no idea what they were thinking ... didn't GM / Cadillac use something similar years ago with less than stellar results ?

 

Honda had some issues (and still might ?) with their first direct injected 4 cyl used in the latest generation CRV - the oil level was actually increasing due to unburnt fuel during combustion (low temps) ...  maybe they thought this would balance out the oil consumption of the VCM equipped engines  ?  lol

 

[lynnmor 7,308]

Just received this email from my wonderful Ford dealer:

 

 

Brilliant guy who wrote that, huh?

[Mickwhitt 4,642]

Lubricating brakes if they are noisy, why didn't I think of that?

 

Oh yeah, because I went to college and understand how friction brakes actually work. 

 

The grinding noise you can hear right now is Henry Ford spinning in his grave. Lol

 

Mick 

[wallfish 17,012]

27 minutes ago, Mickwhitt said:

The grinding noise you can hear right now is Henry Ford spinning in his grave. Lol

[squonk 41,155]

I started working in dealerships in 79. 1000 miles and a qt of oil was considered normal  by all the manufacturers before then so it's nothing new or made up by the dealership. Unless it was a Vega. Then it was 4 qts. Every 100 miles.

Edited March 29, 2021 by squonk

[tom2p 2,394]

17 minutes ago, squonk said:

I started working in dealerships in 79. 1000 miles and a qt of oil was considered normal before then by all the manufacturers before then so it's nothing new or made up by the dealership. Unless it was a Vega. Then it was 4 qts. Every 100 miles.

I worked at a service station during the 70's ... including the pumps -  'petroleum distribution engineer' ... lol

 

the Vega was the worst ... whew 

 

was that aluminum block without iron liners ?

whew ... bad ... put a lot of oil in those things ... 
 

Edited March 29, 2021 by tom2p

[tom2p 2,394]

recall during the late 70's when disc brakes began to be more common - the 'grinding noise' was the all too common kiss of death 

 

excessively worn pads too common ...

 

a lot of trashed rotors ... bad / frozen calipers ... 

 

[squonk 41,155]

10 minutes ago, tom2p said:

I worked at a service station during the 70's ... including the pumps -  'petroleum distribution engineer' ... lol

 

the Vega was the worst ... whew 

 

was that aluminum block without iron liners ?

whew ... bad ... put a lot of oil in those things ... 
 

Had a 73 Vagrant when I was in college. 100 miles one way to and from home. I would buy a case of Quaker City oil for 49cents a qt. at the grocery store. When I got to college the oil light would flicker, add a qt. When I got home add a qt. 

[lynnmor 7,308]

My last visit to that Ford dealer was for some warranty work (which they denied), but they did forget to apply brake fluid to lubricate the brake hose where they bent it tight against the coil spring.