Hopped up Briggs twin build

[Greentored 3,214]

Been having a RIOT on the B1 Bomber, and the stock, yet tired K321 has been great and offers more than enough power for getting up the hills and building some wheel speed for getting through slop. However, I miss that opposed twin snarl my 520H had.

Certainly cant afford an Onan, but along comes a 18hp Briggs flatty on marketplace, running, for 60 bucks. Now, yanking a good Kohler off a Horse and replacing it with a Briggs seems like blasphemy to me, but after much consideration, I came up with the "I'm saving a good Kohler from possible death" excuse- so the Briggs build begins.

There's not a lot of info out there on hopping these up, but I did find a couple limited conversations about oiling mods, as these are a splash system. Being that we offroad guys see some seriously steep hills and off camber situations quite often, oiling mods are an absolute requirement in my book.

  So far I've pulled the pan and checked the rods and crank and they are perfect, and a couple parts are ordered, stay tuned as this build progresses!

Edited March 18, 2021 by Greentored

[Pullstart 62,912]

Woo hoo!  I have a Briggs twin that was blowing oil out the breathers just after purchase... the only difference between what I and the previous owner had done was run it up and down some fairly steep ramps on the dump trailer.  
 

I’m telling you in hopes you notice what may have caused it (where are the innards of the breather?) and also to make you aware of running them in an angle.  Fluke?  I’ve no idea.  Changed the oil, looked over the breathers, all appeared normal.  Runs great, but blows oil everywhere!

 

This link goes to where I had the oil issues.  

Edited March 18, 2021 by pullstart
Link

[OldWorkHorse 3,045]

Thats gonna be awesome! How come I never find these deals lol. 60$ here buys you used spark plug and air filter lol

Edited March 18, 2021 by OldWorkHorse

[cschannuth 3,816]

1 hour ago, Greentored said:

Kohler off a Horse and replacing it with a Briggs

I wouldn’t be too upset. Wheel Horse had to do the same thing in 1978, ha ha.  It’s still all original and running strong after all these years.  I don’t know if my dad was just lucky but he mowed our yard with this thing for decades and it was so steep he probably shouldn’t have been on a garden tractor and he never had any issues with it.  

Edited March 18, 2021 by cschannuth

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

I've got an 18HP Briggs twin on an old pressure washer (BIG! pressure washer!) that I don't use anymore.  I wonder if it's the same one that WH used and if needed, could I swap the KT out with the Briggs.

 

Any particular engine numbers I should be looking for?

 

Here's a photo of the potential donor, I've had this up to 4500 PSI a few times, but that scares me.  Three cylinder compressor!  It's a MONSTER!

 

 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[seuadr 488]

60 bucks? good lord! what a score!

 

[Charbs152 254]

i love my 18hp briggs opposed twin in my C-175.  Things a beast.  Looking forward to following your project.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Charbs152

[Bill D 1,926]

I have a GT 1642 and I love it.  I almost sold it, but couldn't do it.  Great running engine.  Found a video on you tube of one on a go cart that was being run well over 4000 RPM.  One tip, make sure you stake in the valve seats as they have been known to pop out like the Onans.  Bill

[bds1984 1,435]

2 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I've got an 18HP Briggs twin on an old pressure washer (BIG! pressure washer!) that I don't use anymore.  I wonder if it's the same one that WH used and if needed, could I swap the KT out with the Briggs.

 

Any particular engine numbers I should be looking for?

 

If you want to use the Briggs engine with a Wheel Horse PTO, the second to last character in the model number needs to be a 3 or a 4.  Those numbers will tell you that engine has ball bearings on the PTO; 3 is is splash lube and a 4 is pressure lube.  I had a 424437 I regret selling as I needed it for a 312-8 that was sans motor.  Chances are that if the engine is a horizontal 18 hp twin, it has ball bearings on the crank but better be safe to check.

[bds1984 1,435]

Also, I wouldn't have any shame running a Briggs flat twin in place of a Kohler.  I love my K, Magnum, and Command series, but the Briggs Twins are good engines, too.  They received a bad rap from being installed in cheap lawn mowers in the 80s and 90s and being sold to cheap owners who never maintained them properly.   

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

9 minutes ago, bds1984 said:

I had a 424437

 

OK!  This one is a 422437

 

What does the "Basic Design Series" mean exactly?  

 

So since this one has the ball bearing, it could be used I think.   Does the WH PTO assembly fit right on with no modification?

 

This engine ran fine with one exception... it was hard starting and when I did manage to get it started it always seemed to run very lean.  I rebuilt the carb but that didn't help.  I stopped using that pressure washer because of this, can't be fiddling with an engine when I'm on a job!  Sounds like a job for this coming spring to get that thing going again!

 

I'm sure there must be a thread I can search where someone has already done this research...

Edited March 18, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Charbs152 254]

6 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

OK!  This one is a 422437

 

What does the "Basic Design Series" mean exactly?  

 

So since this one has the ball bearing, it could be used I think.   Does the WH PTO assembly fit right on with no modification?

 

I'm sure there must be a thread I can search where someone has already done this research...

i beleive that is the generation of the motor.  I have a 421437 in my C-175 and its a super early 80s engine from what i can tell.

 

Theres a sticker on the engine that also says L-468950 which i am told means that the block has been re manufactured or something.

[ebinmaine 67,610]

10 minutes ago, bds1984 said:

Also, I wouldn't have any shame running a Briggs flat twin in place of a Kohler.  I love my K, Magnum, and Command series, but the Briggs Twins are good engines, too.  They received a bad rap from being installed in cheap lawn mowers in the 80s and 90s and being sold to cheap owners who never maintained them properly.   

Absolutely agreed.

 

@Greentored

I'd have no qualms whatsoever about running a Briggs flat opposed engine. 

 

Looking forward to seeing what you do with this one. 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

6 minutes ago, Charbs152 said:

have a 421437 in my C-175

 

Did you do the retrofit?

Or get it with the Briggs already in place?

[Charbs152 254]

6 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Did you do the retrofit?

Or get it with the Briggs already in place?

it had the briggs in it when i bought it.  I believe the briggs was swapped in there...  The C-175 should have had a KT series engine...whats strange was this was swapped with an engine that was built right at the same time period as the tractor....

 

either the tractor came with the briggs (i doubt it)

 

Someone swapped the briggs early on after blowing the kohler KT series 1 (maybe but it has a sticker from what im told means re-man/rebuilt)

 

The more likely scenario is below -

 

I was SOLD this tractor by a fella who purchased this from the estate of a man who passed away that happened to be his neighbor...  He said the guy would maintain 3 properties in the neighborhood, snow and mowing.  He said the guy put a "new" engine in the tractor and never got it running/was sick and passed away shortly after.  The man who sold me the tractor had tried for many years to buy the tractor and the family finally agreed to sell it to him because they ended up selling the property where it was stored...  It wasnt wired properly according to the man i purchased it from....  So basically this tractor sat from the early 90s until summer of 2020 in a garage untouched.  So i might possibly have a freshly rebuilt Briggs.  I have no clue but it runs like a top and burns 0 oil for what thats worth.

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

14 minutes ago, Charbs152 said:

had the briggs in it when i bought it.

 

So you don't have any of the specifics as to what is involved in swapping then.

 

OK, back to the search engine!

[Charbs152 254]

6 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

So you don't have any of the specifics as to what is involved in swapping then.

 

OK, back to the search engine!

nope..wish i did... I am unsure if the machine still uses stock drive/pto belts...i guess thats a project for this summer lol

Edited March 19, 2021 by Charbs152

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, Charbs152 said:

nope..wish i did... I am unsure if the machine still uses stock drive/pto belts...i guess thats a project for this summer lol

 

A bit of research and I've found that the GT1848 also used the 422437 model that I have so now need to compare part lists to see if they use the same PTO components.  I suspect that they do.

 

Might be an easy swap, but of course I won't be doing it unless I have a problem with my KT.  But it would be good to know it's possible and what I would need to do, just in case!

[Charbs152 254]

18 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

A bit of research and I've found that the GT1848 also used the 422437 model that I have so now need to compare part lists to see if they use the same PTO components.  I suspect that they do.

 

Might be an easy swap, but of course I won't be doing it unless I have a problem with my KT.  But it would be good to know it's possible and what I would need to do, just in case!

Nice, thats good to know. 

 

 

[Greentored 3,214]

This particular one is a model 422437 as well- ball bearings AND an alternator under that flywheel, folks! No need for a PTO on mine, but looks like thats the one WH used for it

This engine was on an old 1967 Roper- the cleanliness versus the rest of the machine AND any research done told me this was not original. Sure enough, its manufacture date is 1988.

As for the 60 dollar steal, consider it payback for all the Horses I see you guys rescuing from junkyards and next to sheds for 50 bucks or even free. Anything under 300 down here in NC gets my serious attention, and chances are at that price it will be well used, have flat, dry rotted tires, and no mower deck. A complete, big block powered 70s model ready to go for 450-500 is a 'decent deal'. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Greentored

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

I compared the 1984 GT IPL to the 1980 C-175 IPL.  The GT-1800 uses Briggs 422237 and of course the C-175 is the KT-17

 

 

It looks like the main area of concern would be the Bearing Race, item 40.  I believe this may be due to different crankshaft size?  Anyone know?

 

[I knew the answer back in 2013... found an old thread.  The 6935 race is for 1" engine shaft.  The KT17 has a 1-1/8" shaft

 

The engine pulley is different,  for same reason.

 

It seems those two items are the only significant differences.

 

Don't know why the Engine Bracket (25) , PTO Housing Rod (31) , or the Brake (23) are different yet.

 

Not sure yet if the Briggs has an on board fuel pump, my pressure washer seems to be gravity fed.

 

@Charbs152

 

Edited March 20, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[Charbs152 254]

On 3/19/2021 at 9:11 AM, Jeff-C175 said:

I compared the 1984 GT IPL to the 1980 C-175 IPL.  The GT-1800 uses Briggs 422237 and of course the C-175 is the KT-17

 

 

It looks like the main area of concern would be the Bearing Race, item 40.  I believe this may be due to different crankshaft size?  Anyone know?

 

[I knew the answer back in 2013... found an old thread.  The 6935 race is for 1" engine shaft.  The KT17 has a 1-1/8" shaft

 

The engine pulley is different,  for same reason.

 

It seems those two items are the only significant differences.

 

Don't know why the Engine Bracket (25) , PTO Housing Rod (31) , or the Brake (23) are different yet.

 

Not sure yet if the Briggs has an on board fuel pump, my pressure washer seems to be gravity fed.

 

@Charbs152

 

The fuel pump is integrated into the carburetor and runs on vacuum 

 

 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

2 hours ago, Charbs152 said:

The fuel pump is integrated into the carburetor and runs on vacuum 

 

 

 

 

I'll have to take a closer look,  I don't recall a pump on this carb when I rebuilt it.  We may have different carbs.

[c-series don 8,723]

In August of 1984 I bought a brand new Work Horse GT-1800 with the Briggs 18 hp you guys are talking about. I can personally attest this engine has several thousand hours on it. I used it commercially for almost ten years, mowing, lots and lots of mowing plus snow plowing and tilling many gardens. I still have this tractor and restored it a few years ago. The Briggs is still running strong and all I ever did was change the oil(a lot) and replace a few starter gears. As many of you guys know I own many Wheel Horse tractors and this would be the last one I would ever sell. I was a kid when I bought it and I remember like it was yesterday the owner of the dealership telling me as I sat on my new Work Horse, he said “Son, you take care of this tractor and your kids will drive it someday!” Damned if he wasn’t right,my kids did drive it and someday hopefully my grandkids will drive it. God bless American made Briggs and Stratton and Wheel Horse tractors.

[Greentored 3,214]

Update:

As per usual, a 'quick inspection' has turned into Pandora's box. Pistons are out to do the rod work, might as well hone and ring it. Valves are out to do some port cleanup and reface valves- exhaust valve guides are SHOT, like, not even acceptable for a trail bomb, so its getting exhaust guides. At this point, it should come completely down to be done correctly and clean, so waiting on the big brown truck to deliver rings, guides, and a full gasket set. Stay tuned!