520H - P220 to N52M swap?

[seuadr 488]

3 minutes ago, onanparts.com said:

Post the "Stamped" "Punched" serial number from the area in this pic before opening it back up. N52M not used in any gensets I'm aware of. The short block "should" have 5 balls, not ten.....but you could customize just about anything when ordering an Onan engine...

 

 

 

It was not for a gen set, it has a straight shaft. Unless welder gens had a straight shaft?

[onanparts.com 181]

13 minutes ago, seuadr said:

It was not for a gen set, it has a straight shaft. Unless welder gens had a straight shaft?

 

Most but not all N52M went to Sears/Roper. A few to Gravely. Odds are very high it has what you need, 5 balls. I wouldn't open it back up....

[seuadr 488]

So fortunately i had not put oil in yet. 5 balls. Also havd the plastic spacer with the tab to hold it in place.

 

I didn't pull the cover cause i can see them through the hole in the cover, since i know it isn't rotating.

 

I'm guessing that the rod with the forks:

 

 

Pushes on the spring loaded piece here:

 

?

[seuadr 488]

4 minutes ago, onanparts.com said:

 

Most but not all N52M went to Sears/Roper. A few to Gravely. Odds are very high it has what you need, 5 balls. I wouldn't open it back up....

Fortunately it is still sitting on my bench with no oil so not too bad..

[onanparts.com 181]

8 minutes ago, seuadr said:

So fortunately i had not put oil in yet. 5 balls. Also havd the plastic spacer with the tab to hold it in place.

 

I didn't pull the cover cause i can see them through the hole in the cover, since i know it isn't rotating.

 

I'm guessing that the rod with the forks:

 

 

Pushes on the spring loaded piece here:

 

?

 

That rusty cam gear is going to ruin the short block.....two words...self destruct....:(

[seuadr 488]

17 minutes ago, onanparts.com said:

 

That rusty cam gear is going to ruin the short block.....two words...self destruct....:(

it is surface rust, if i clean it off will that be sufficient?

 

[onanparts.com 181]

14 minutes ago, seuadr said:

it is surface rust, if i clean it off will that be sufficient?

 

I would use the cam out of the oil burner motor...

[onanparts.com 181]

Even after cleaning off the rust with navel jelly or similar, good bet there is ugly pitting in the teeth. On Onan engines that have oil filters, cam lobe wear is rare. If you remove the oil burner cam I'm betting it looks like new. If the short block crank gear is also rusty, well, same story. Would go with swapping both gears over. 9 out of 10 folks ruin the crank gear from improper removal...

 

See post #4 here if you decide or need to swap crank gears..

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/onan-cck-rebuilding-faq.64577/

 

Please slow down and catch your breath. You have a pile of cash and lots of labor invested in this project. Doing it the right way will result in decades of service from the "New" Onan. Incorrect way could mean a very short life for it......:(

[seuadr 488]

12 minutes ago, onanparts.com said:

Even after cleaning off the rust with navel jelly or similar, good bet there is ugly pitting in the teeth. On Onan engines that have oil filters, cam lobe wear is rare. If you remove the oil burner cam I'm betting it looks like new. If the short block crank gear is also rusty, well, same story. Would go with swapping both gears over. 9 out of 10 folks ruin the crank gear from improper removal...

 

See post #4 here if you decide or need to swap crank gears..

https://www.smokstak.com/forum/threads/onan-cck-rebuilding-faq.64577/

 

Please slow down and catch your breath. You have a pile of cash and lots of labor invested in this project. Doing it the right way will result in decades of service from the "New" Onan. Incorrect way could mean a very short life for it......:(

so, i took a couple of videos close up of the cam gear rotating all the way around from a couple of different angles after hitting it with a brass brush.

 

i'd love your opinion. I'm happy to pull it if it makes sense, but, i don't think i see any pitting (of course, i don't have the experience you do, hence the video(s). 

 

i posted lots of pictures earlier of the short block in the hopes that people would point these sorts of things out.

 

here is the first video link (the second is still uploading)

 

 

[seuadr 488]

i'm going to guess this is what you are talking about:

 

[seuadr 488]

here is the other:

 

 

[onanparts.com 181]

Cleaned up better than expected. Actually looks ok, not perfect, but ok. I see what looks like metal shavings or some debris in the grooves? Rust crust? The oil filter will get anything really fine but that pick up screen for the pump will only trap just so much. Anything gets past it has to go through the pump before it sees the filter. After first start up, run about 5 minutes. Shutdown and change oil and the filter.

[seuadr 488]

Just now, onanparts.com said:

Cleaned up better than expected. Actually looks ok, not perfect, but ok. I see what looks like metal shavings or some debris in the grooves? Rust crust? The oil filter will get anything really fine but that pick up screen for the pump will only trap just so much. Anything gets past it has to go through the pump before it sees the filter. After first start up, run about 5 minutes. Shutdown and change oil and the filter.

there was this waxy stuff on it that is kinda orangeish, whole motor. kind of like cosmoline, but, harder. when i brushed it off with a steel brush it turned into a kind of dusty paste. looks like i have not done a good job of removing it all from that area. i'll give the whole area a good blasting from my air gun and some carb cleaner to make sure it all clears out better.

 

thanks for your continued assistance! .

 

[seuadr 488]

so, i used some crab cleaner, my nylon brush and then blew everything out with compressed air:

 

before:

 

after:

 

 

went all the way around, i got everything i saw

 

Also got thinking what does the bottom gear look like?

 

so i took a video of the two meshing together (excuse the shakiness, my grip on the rubber strap wrench kept slipping):

 

 

[onanparts.com 181]

Did you replace the timing cover seal?

[seuadr 488]

4 minutes ago, onanparts.com said:

Did you replace the timing cover seal?

the outer gasket? i did, i just don't have it on there right now. if you are talking about around flywheel shaft, no not yet, but i have it. 

[onanparts.com 181]

Just now, seuadr said:

the outer gasket? i did, i just don't have it on there right now. if you are talking about around flywheel shaft, no not yet, but i have it. 

Crank seal. Special trick to remove old one without destroying the cover...

 

Small amount of heat from a propane torch on the metal areas inside and outside the seal area. Just enough to warm it up, not cook it! Press, not drive seal out. Big socket slightly smaller diameter of the seal works. A drill press makes a good arbor press in a pinch. If it won't budge, a little more heat. Same for installing, just no heat required with a new seal. Make note of where the seal is now, so new seal goes in same depth. Use wheel bearing grease on inner lip of new seal, not a lot. Prevents any future leaks....:)

[seuadr 488]

3 hours ago, onanparts.com said:

Crank seal. Special trick to remove old one without destroying the cover...

 

Small amount of heat from a propane torch on the metal areas inside and outside the seal area. Just enough to warm it up, not cook it! Press, not drive seal out. Big socket slightly smaller diameter of the seal works. A drill press makes a good arbor press in a pinch. If it won't budge, a little more heat. Same for installing, just no heat required with a new seal. Make note of where the seal is now, so new seal goes in same depth. Use wheel bearing grease on inner lip of new seal, not a lot. Prevents any future leaks....:)

i must have gotten lucky with the old one, slid right off nearly no resistance. so i assumed it was still good, but, no reason not to replace it!

duh - you are talking about the seal itself, not the crankshaft. too many fumes

 

you were right on the money, a slight bit of heat and a right sized socket got the old one out easy and the new one in without a hassle. actually over-drove the new one slightly and had to tippy-tap it back to the right spot!

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by seuadr

[seuadr 488]

Which port is out to the filter?

[onanparts.com 181]

Center, threaded oil filter port is the oil flow outlet at the filter.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by onanparts.com

[seuadr 488]

1 hour ago, onanparts.com said:

Center, threaded oil filter port is the oil flow outlet at the filter

Thanks! I do not have that plate so i was not sure.

 

I do have the hoses and fittings but they won't work with the engine, pictures of where I've seen them routed before would be straight through my starter. 😆

[seuadr 488]

Started taking more detailed measurements today on the PTO side between the blocks to see what i might have to do to make it fit.. so far, looks really good:

 

Both are 6 3/4 plate to shaft center.

Both are 7 1/2 center of mount tab to center of mount tab.

 

Side to side it looks like the new motor is going to be about an inch longer, but i am guesstimating because the tins aren't on yet.

 

Getting the bypass plunger and spring replacements today so wanna pull the adapter off and rebuild that first. Figure it is cheap insurance.

 

 

Edited April 3, 2021 by seuadr

[seuadr 488]

On 3/27/2021 at 12:28 PM, Bill D said:

Just wondering, will the muffler from the P220 will fit the N52?

Nope:

 

 

Ears on opposite, but the spacing looks right?

 

I suppose if i wanted i could cut the ears loose and rotate them then get someone to weld them back up (or i could try brazing them)

 

But i will see how i like it as is before i worry about that.

[seuadr 488]

How's my PTO look? Seems like a lot of material left. Doesn't look like the riveted one.

[seuadr 488]

Dimensionally, very close!

 

Git some frame cleaning to do first though - sheesh!

 

Plus i need to figure out what I plan on doing for the chipper. Should be much easier with the motor out if there!