520H - P220 to N52M swap?

[Bill D 1,926]

Just wondering, will the muffler from the P220 will fit the N52?

[seuadr 488]

28 minutes ago, Bill D said:

Just wondering, will the muffler from the P220 will fit the N52?

I am wondering the same thing!

 

I wanna see if it lines up once i have the p220 off. I am not sure i care for the two singles venting out the side.

 

[seuadr 488]

Mock up of my screen while waiting for painting to dry - i think it looks good!

 

[seuadr 488]

Well this kind of sucks:

 

 

The opposite corner is where the starter mounts so guess it is what it is.

[Handy Don 12,244]

22 hours ago, seuadr said:

 

Evidently i have nelson mufflers?

 

 

Not too bad!

Better than "not too bad", I'd say. The dual muffler look is kinda cool.

[seuadr 488]

55 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Better than "not too bad", I'd say. The dual muffler look is kinda cool.

yeah they discharge out the side opposite the inlet, so they'll be puffing straight out of the side of the tractor. dunno if that'll be ideal or not. if not, i have another set of heaters that came with the junker motor that i can do something with. we'll see i suppose!

[seuadr 488]

Thinking about how best to wire the oil cutoff switch - it is located pretty close to the coil, wiring it in series beyween the + wire on the coil and the ignition switch should do the trick, right?

[Handy Don 12,244]

7 minutes ago, seuadr said:

Thinking about how best to wire the oil cutoff switch - it is located pretty close to the coil, wiring it in series beyween the + wire on the coil and the ignition switch should do the trick, right?

That sounds right, but I'd look at a wiring diagram to make sure. It should "open" the circuit in the fail condition if wired as you describe.

[seuadr 488]

Yeah according to the part number it is a normally open switch, but I can't really test if it closes correctly till the motor runs. I may just replace it with a pressure sensor if i can find one, but the cutoff would provide more safety. 

[Handy Don 12,244]

1 minute ago, seuadr said:

Yeah according to the part number it is a normally open switch, but I can't really test if it closes correctly till the motor runs. I may just replace it with a pressure sensor if i can find one, but the cutoff would provide more safety. 

Is "normal" when there is enough oil (or pressure)?  If yes, then putting that in series will keep the tractor from running when the oil level or pressure is good.

[seuadr 488]

3 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

Is "normal" when there is enough oil (or pressure)?  If yes, then putting that in series will keep the tractor from running when the oil level or pressure is good.

Normal is "de-ergized" so it would close when the switch reaches pressure

[Handy Don 12,244]

The P218 518-H I have has a low pressure sensor that illuminates a dash light on low pressure. It doesn't have a cutoff.

1 minute ago, seuadr said:

Normal is "de-ergized" so it would close when the switch reaches pressure

So you would be relying on the starter to crank enough oil pressure to energize the switch and permit the engine to fire up. Interesting. On the '89 518 the pressure is only for an indicator lamp, not a cutoff. (The 520 also has temp sensors for engine and transmission).

[seuadr 488]

14 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

So you would be relying on the starter to crank enough oil pressure to energize the switch and permit the engine to fire up. Interesting.

You know, i had not considered that.  But you are right. I honestly don't know if that would be sufficient to close the switch. I don't know for sure what the adapter came off of (bought used) so I can't be sure what circuit it might have been in originally.

[onanparts.com 181]

1 hour ago, seuadr said:

You know, i had not considered that.  But you are right. I honestly don't know if that would be sufficient to close the switch. I don't know for sure what the adapter came off of (bought used) so I can't be sure what circuit it might have been in originally.

Millions of Onan powered Miller, Lincoln and Hobart welder/generators use the NO, Normally Open switch or LOPKO, Low Oil Pressure Kut Off. A few seconds of cranking will cause the switch to close and let the juice flow to the coil. Not sure why most GT's do not use the safety feature...A "T" with LOPKO and also a line feeding a gauge is optimum. :)

[Handy Don 12,244]

8 hours ago, onanparts.com said:

Millions of Onan powered Miller, Lincoln and Hobart welder/generators use the NO, Normally Open switch or LOPKO, Low Oil Pressure Kut Off. A few seconds of cranking will cause the switch to close and let the juice flow to the coil. Not sure why most GT's do not use the safety feature...A "T" with LOPKO and also a line feeding a gauge is optimum.

Thank you for the insight and help! Makes sense to have juice flow to both the coil and a gauge that shows "good".

To show "Low pressure" with that normally-open switch, though, you'd need a relay (or the electronics equivalent). That may be why WH didn't go that way.

 

[seuadr 488]

8 hours ago, onanparts.com said:

Millions of Onan powered Miller, Lincoln and Hobart welder/generators use the NO, Normally Open switch or LOPKO, Low Oil Pressure Kut Off. A few seconds of cranking will cause the switch to close and let the juice flow to the coil. Not sure why most GT's do not use the safety feature...A "T" with LOPKO and also a line feeding a gauge is optimum.

Thanks for confirmation! I pm'd you about a replacement option earlier this week - I'm guessing by your "tee" statement that there is not an "onan" combo sensor and sending unit?

[seuadr 488]

oops, doubled up posts somehow.

Edited March 28, 2021 by seuadr
douplicate posts

[seuadr 488]

Waiting on fittings for the remote filter, but ran new wires for the coil and pressure switch in the meantime!

 

 

Now i need to : shudder : clean the shop. Need more room to get around for next steps, like figuring out where i am going to put the remote filer itself, pulling the p220, etc.

 

Also going to install the foot pedal control kit i got from matt a couple of years ago, and i assume there will be a fair amount of wiring to remove/alter for the n52m as it doesn't have the electronic ignition. 

 

Thinking about freshening up the visible bodywork too, and will need a place to hang it.

 

I have been messing around with little pops of regal red on the motor and rather like it, I've an entire other set of parts that i think I'll prep and paint - like the intake.

Edited March 28, 2021 by seuadr
i r gud speeler.

[onanparts.com 181]

10 hours ago, seuadr said:

Thanks for confirmation! I pm'd you about a replacement option earlier this week - I'm guessing by your "tee" statement that there is not an "onan" combo sensor and sending unit?

Not for this type of application. That I'm aware of anyway. This set up here is basically what you would use. Lopko on one T port and the gauge sensor on the other.

 

 

[Handy Don 12,244]

2 hours ago, onanparts.com said:

Not for this type of application. That I'm aware of anyway. This set up here is basically what you would use. Lopko on one T port and the gauge sensor on the other.

 

 

Ok, I was a bit confused because I was thinking electrical T and you, I think, we're thinking oil line piping Tee.

 

The LOPKO senses pressure, not level, but its output is either open circuit (low pressure) or closed circuit (good pressure), right? Having that in series with the ignition-to-coil makes sense for safety (and, as you pointed out, works just fine on LOTS of Onan's). You could "T" the electrical connection at the LOPKO to run to both the coil AND an indicator but then the indicator would light when the pressure is high, not low. So I'm thinking you'd have to add a relay to interpret "no voltage" from the LOPKO as "turn on the indicator" and "voltage" from the LOPKO as "turn the indicator off".

 

Your post goes one better and says "use a pressure gauge". For that you need what you were talking about--a tee in the oil pressure port on the engine where the LOPKO is now installed to provide a place to install the sensor for the gage in your post! Now I get it, I hope.  The pressure gauge wiring, then, is completely separate--likely directly from the Accessory side of the ignition switch--and the LOPKO is only in the ignition-to-coil circuit.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by Handy Don

[ZXT 2,401]

What did this N52M come off of, just curious? I have one on a Sears GT 19.9. Haven't used it much (it needs a lot of work) but it seems to be a very stout engine.

[seuadr 488]

3 minutes ago, ZXT said:

What did this N52M come off of, just curious? I have one on a Sears GT 19.9. Haven't used it much (it needs a lot of work) but it seems to be a very stout engine.

Well i had 3 of them, one was a NOS short block, 1 appears to have been in a welder and the other appears to have come from a bolens tractor, or something that used the same electrical clutch as a bolens tractor.

[onanparts.com 181]

There are 3 terminal oil pressure switches too. NO and NC. Idiot light and coil juice cut off...dozens of versions....

[seuadr 488]

aww crap. i just realized that i didn't check how many governor balls are in the governor. guess i'll have to pull the flywheel again. at least i'll get good at it?

 

huh. the n52m engine manual has the governor est up at 2400 rpm ans "90rpm higher than the connected load" 

 

so it seems a safe bet that the current configuration is probably not the right number of balls. i've read that 10 balls is 1800 rpm, and 8 balls is 3600 rpm, but also that 5 balls is 3600 (which i think would make more sense)

 

i guess i may have to rig this up to run on a bench so i can test and adjust.

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by seuadr
additional info

[onanparts.com 181]

3 hours ago, seuadr said:

aww crap. i just realized that i didn't check how many governor balls are in the governor. guess i'll have to pull the flywheel again. at least i'll get good at it?

 

huh. the n52m engine manual has the governor est up at 2400 rpm ans "90rpm higher than the connected load" 

 

so it seems a safe bet that the current configuration is probably not the right number of balls. i've read that 10 balls is 1800 rpm, and 8 balls is 3600 rpm, but also that 5 balls is 3600 (which i think would make more sense)

 

i guess i may have to rig this up to run on a bench so i can test and adjust.

 

Post the "Stamped" "Punched" serial number from the area in this pic before opening it back up. N52M not used in any gensets I'm aware of. The short block "should" have 5 balls, not ten.....but you could customize just about anything when ordering an Onan engine...