My first Horse.... 314-8

[racerjohnbf 130]

As an update.... I added some MMO to the tank and let her run for 30mins or so this afternoon at varying speeds while I was watching my daughter on her 4wheeler. I'm sure the carb needs a proper cleaning because it runs good at idle, 1/4, 1/2, and full throttle, but wants to hunt a bit around 2/3 to 3/4. 

 

Black smoke on sudden acceleration seems mostly gone. And backfire only happens when slamming the throttle closed or if the throttle is moved to fast and right back down before the engine can level out. If I bring throttle down at a normal pace from wot all is good.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

12 minutes ago, racerjohnbf said:

Good points. Is the timing adjustable on on the magnum 14?

That Chem-dip is strong stuff. It cleans very well but I'm always a little worried about it eating any plastics parts if a carb is not completely disassembled. These days I like to use an ultrasonic instead. The ultrasonic works good but sometimes it won't touch stuff the the Chem-dip would. 

Yes sir, will do.

 

Yep the carb is due to for a proper cleaning. I just pulled the bowl nut to get some brake cleaner through the main jet and shot some through the other passages I could get to without disassembling since I didn't have new gaskets. I really just wanted to see if it would start.

 

I have left Holley plastic carb parts in the Chem-dip for days if not a week, no adverse effect to those, it will take of the factory "diachromate" finish on the aluminum body parts that long though, 

Brake-clean is very potent solvent, I hope it doesn't adversely effect the cylinder walls if used as a "starting" fluid vs standard carb and choke cleaner? Which I prefer over "ether" starting fluids.

I believe all Kohlers K/M series are "static" timed even with change in point gap on the Ks you really aren't changing the timing like in car with a distributor , where as the M has the magneto/coil on the flywheel.  Someone else can answer that better than myself.

[lynnmor 7,315]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

If you pull and have "soak" it which brand so you use? 

I never soaked a carburetor in my life.  I’ve done anything from large four barrels to tiny garden tools.  I believe in physically removing foreign matter with the help of the spray can mentioned.  Using various solvents in the hope that they will work is just guessing.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 hour ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

even with change in point gap on the Ks you really aren't changing the timing like in car with a distributor

 

Within a small window of a few degrees you actually can change the spark timing.  

 

If the points are adjusted closer, they will open sooner, and vice versa.

 

It's a small window though because you need to have the points closed long enough for adequate 'dwell' time to 'charge up' the coil.

 

In a distributor system you set the points for proper dwell and then physically change the timing by turning the distributor without affecting dwell time of the points.

 

Yes, the timing on our engines is fixed but it is possible to fudge it a few degrees by adjusting the points.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

7 hours ago, lynnmor said:

I never soaked a carburetor in my life.  I’ve done anything from large four barrels to tiny garden tools.  I believe in physically removing foreign matter with the help of the spray can mentioned.  Using various solvents in the hope that they will work is just guessing.

So professional mechanics (such as my retired FIL) was just guessing all the years by putting disassembled carbs into the soak tank over night then thoroughly cleaning them using spray can solvents and compressed air??? And that my auto shop teacher who was in his 60s back in 88/89 also was guessing when he taught us to do the very same thing in class? I do agree lots of so-called chemicals are just that "snake oil" , But I have seen what's left in the bottom of those carb soak cans, after the shake-n-bake spray can clean with compressed air, there is no comparison, ethanol gets to metal that the puny spray can cleaner just cant touch vs a true bucket soaking.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

6 hours ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

Within a small window of a few degrees you actually can change the spark timing.  

 

If the points are adjusted closer, they will open sooner, and vice versa.

 

It's a small window though because you need to have the points closed long enough for adequate 'dwell' time to 'charge up' the coil.

 

In a distributor system you set the points for proper dwell and then physically change the timing by turning the distributor without affecting dwell time of the points.

 

Yes, the timing on our engines is fixed but it is possible to fudge it a few degrees by adjusting the points.

The Magnums are magneto no points that was original question, so no adjustable timing??

[racerjohnbf 130]

9 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

I have left Holley plastic carb parts in the Chem-dip for days if not a week, no adverse effect to those, it will take of the factory "diachromate" finish on the aluminum body parts that long though, 

Brake-clean is very potent solvent, I hope it doesn't adversely effect the cylinder walls if used as a "starting" fluid vs standard carb and choke cleaner? Which I prefer over "ether" starting fluids.

I've done the same with small engine carbs in the past and never had a problem either. It works great, but over the years I've tried to get away from some of the harsher solvents mostly because of what they may do to me in 20yrs lol.

 

The brake cleaner I use non-chlorinated and not near as strong as most spray carb cleaners I've used in the past. And I usually try not to use it as a starting fluid too often. Tiny squirt of 2 cycle mix gas usually works well for that. I don't even own a can of ether!

 

I have had success in getting a lot of engines running with the shot of brake cleaner through the main jet. Not always the long term answer but works in a pinch for me if I need something quick.

[racerjohnbf 130]

51 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

The Magnums are magneto no points that was original question, so no adjustable timing??

That has always been my understanding. Could be wrong though.

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

2 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

The Magnums are magneto no points that was original question, so no adjustable timing??

 

Ooops, didn't notice that!  I never messed with an M model Kohler so don't know for sure.  I had a Wisconsin with a mag many years ago that had some sort of timing adjustment on the mag but don't recall how it worked. 

[953 nut 55,329]

23 hours ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

I believe all Kohlers K/M series are "static" timed even with change in point gap on the Ks you really aren't changing the timing like in car with a distributor , where as the M has the magneto/coil on the flywheel.  Someone else can answer that better than myself.

Magnum timing is fixed but any K series with battery ignition or points/magneto ignition must be timed by adjusting the points gap. The newer K series with the ACR cam can be static timed but the older models with spark advance cams can only be correctly timed with a timing light.

Ignition timing on Kohler engines.

 

Gapping the ignition points at .020 has always been the standard answer to how points should be set. That probably will get you into the ballpark where the engine will run, but with a bit of additional effort you can improve the engine’s power and performance.

The Kohler engine manual in the Red Square files section covers two methods for setting the ignition timing, Static Timing and using a Timing Light. This manual is a relatively new manual and it overlooks the fact that many of our engines were built prior to the ACR (automatic compression release) camshaft.

Earlier engines (mostly 1965 and earlier) had a Spark Advance camshaft that can not be timed using Static timing. At rest (and very low RPMs) the timing is retarded to fire slightly after TDC. The timing mark (SP) on your flywheel is at twenty degrees before top dead center but at rest the points on these engines break about ten degrees after top dead center. The only reliable way to check or set the timing on these engines is with a timing light.

There are a couple ways to determine what camshaft you have. Presuming the camshaft in your engine is the one it was born with the data plate on the engine has a suffix that can tell you what camshaft was used. The table below will tell you the suffix applicable to your engine. The other way to determine what camshaft you have is to remove the cam gear cover and take a look. If you see a mechanism attached to the cam gear it is the ACR cam.

 

 

The following engines have the spark advance camshaft;

K-141, Suffix prior to “C”

K-161, Suffix prior to “J”

K-181, Suffix prior to “D”

K-241, Suffix prior to “D”

Edited March 17, 2021 by 953 nut

[Back on a horse 55]

Just to offer an alternative explanation for the backfire ... I know that 4 stroke motorcycles will often back fire on deceleration when they are running too LEAN.

[racerjohnbf 130]

19 minutes ago, Back on a horse said:

Just to offer an alternative explanation for the backfire ... I know that 4 stroke motorcycles will often back fire on deceleration when they are running too LEAN.

Yep, I have seen that as well. The main reason I was assuming too much fuel was the black smoke on acceleration. 

 It seems to have mostly cleared itself up after running it for a while with some MMO added to the fuel so it very well could have been lean and the MMO is helping clean up the carb jets a bit.

[racerjohnbf 130]

Well today  I got the  oil changed and greased her up and put the horse to work for a little while. I'm impressed, although I did find I'll need a new drive belt cause it will slip before the tires lose traction.

 

And although the snow/dozer blade did a good job, I will be building an mid mount grader blade in the future, because I think it will work even better.

 

[Darb1964 1,044]

If you used more mmo. Than recommend that will result in a back fire. Before you do anything I would top off the gas tank.