Adding a Safety switch

[Lcarter114 4]

I have a 1986 417A and I am wanting to add a safety switch to the transmission so that it will not move in forward or reverse if the operator is not on the seat.  The reason being is that this winter I went to get off the tractor with it running and bumped the hydro lever forward and ended up with my leg pulled under the rear wheel.   Yeah I know I should have set the brake but of course it was froze up.  I have been looking at the wiring diagram trying to figure out the best way to do this, has anyone else added a safety switch to their transmission or have any suggestions?

 

Thanks

[DennisThornton 4,769]

Quick thought would be a solenoid that would block a movement unless it were powered by a seat actuated switch and then retracted.  I offer no details though.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

23 minutes ago, Lcarter114 said:

I have a 1986 417A and I am wanting to add a safety switch to the transmission so that it will not move in forward or reverse if the operator is not on the seat.  The reason being is that this winter I went to get off the tractor with it running and bumped the hydro lever forward and ended up with my leg pulled under the rear wheel.   Yeah I know I should have set the brake but of course it was froze up.  I have been looking at the wiring diagram trying to figure out the best way to do this, has anyone else added a safety switch to their transmission or have any suggestions?

 

Thanks

That should be the "seat" or operator presence switch.

Edited March 11, 2021 by WVHillbilly520H

[SylvanLakeWH 25,600]

 

Check and see if it is bypassed...

[Handy Don 12,237]

4 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

Check and see if it is bypassed...

This switch only shuts down the tractor and only if PTO is engaged. No direct interaction with motion control. While engine is spinning down, it can still move.

I think the idea is to force it to neutral while leaving the engine running and leave the existing PTO/Seat safety switch as it is.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Handy Don

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

7 hours ago, Handy Don said:

This switch only shuts down the tractor and only if PTO is engaged. No direct interaction with motion control. While engine is spinning down, it can still move.

I think the idea is to force it to neutral while leaving the engine running and leave the existing PTO/Seat safety switch as it is.

My 520 shuts down if the motion control is in anything other than neutral with the seat switch working, PTO on or not. But it is also 10 years newer than the OPs.

Edited March 12, 2021 by WVHillbilly520H

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I started to reply and then a little cloud of words hovered in front of me

"bumped the hydro lever forward and ended up with my leg pulled under the rear wheel" 

so I replaced what I had written.

[Handy Don 12,237]

I'm looking at the wiring diagram for the 417-A. Here is a section:

The ORANGE arrows point to wires that have power when the ignition switch is in RUN.

The RED arrow points to wire supplying power to the coil when the PTO is engaged and the operator is in the seat.

The YELLOW arrow points to the wire (with my yellow line adjacent) supplying power to the coil when the the PTO is disengaged. It does not go through the seat switch.

(The GREEN arrow points to a wire that would show the state of the seat switch with an indicator light, but I don't think there is a lamp for that in the 417-A dash so it goes nowhere.

Bottom line. It is factory that the engine runs while the PTO is disengaged and the operator is off the seat.

Back to the problem of locking the motion control into neutral.

Edited March 11, 2021 by Handy Don

[johnnymag3 2,520]

Since this is NOT an electrical function, you will have to fabricate a MECHANICAL safety that locks the lever....

     Dennis is correct when he states that you have to create an electric safety that in turn operates A MECHANICAL DEVICE that will electrically operate when you leave the seat. You are looking to do a function that is not available.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

8 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

Back to the problem of locking the motion control into neutral.

Then the simplest solution would be fixing the parking brake?

[pfrederi 17,741]

How about pulling up the tranny clutch lever disengaging the hydro when you get off???

[johnnymag3 2,520]

1 minute ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Then the simplest solution would be fixing the parking brake?

Or remember to USE it !!!!

[R Scheer 502]

The downside to this idea is that you would have to stay on the tractor when warming up the engine.  I try to do a 5 minute warmup before engaging the transmission, having to sit and wait for 5 minutes could prove aggravating.

 

That being said you could probably use the neutral safety switch and the seat switch to run a relays, one pair of contacts used to do the same function as designed.  The second set of contacts could be run in series to give operator seated + not in neutral to stop the engine by opening removing 12V from the coil.  Anything can be done but the added complexity, I'm not sure it would be worth it.

[Handy Don 12,237]

4 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Then the simplest solution would be fixing the parking brake?

 

2 minutes ago, johnnymag3 said:

Or remember to USE it !!!!

 

Agreed to both of these.

 

I have a floor-mounted motion lever and just looked at the floor plate. It would be possible to fabricate a plunger solenoid that locks the lever into neutral. But the sequence of events in dismounting might make it useless depending on when the weight comes off the seat and where the lever is when that happens.

For example, if in starting to dismount, I bump the lever out of the lockable position and into the "no motion" area between forward and reverse, the solenoid has already been thwarted. If while continuing to get off the seat I further bump the lever toward forward or reverse it'll go.

 

[953 nut 55,321]

14 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

How about pulling up the tranny clutch lever disengaging the hydro when you get off???

                 Should be done any time you get of the tractor.

[Handy Don 12,237]

5 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

                 Should be done any time you get of the tractor.

Not sure if the 417-a had a hydro clutch, but it it does, good idea (still doesn't guarantee no movement, however).

[Lcarter114 4]

47 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

That should be the "seat" or operator presence switch.

I will check the wiring for your 520H it might give me some ideas.

[Lcarter114 4]

35 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

Then the simplest solution would be fixing the parking brake?

It works. It just happened to be frozen because of the snow and wind at the time it happened.  I was using the snow blower. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

 

 

34 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

 

Agreed to both of these.

 

I have a floor-mounted motion lever and just looked at the floor plate. It would be possible to fabricate a plunger solenoid that locks the lever into neutral. But the sequence of events in dismounting might make it useless depending on when the weight comes off the seat and where the lever is when that happens.

For example, if in starting to dismount, I bump the lever out of the lockable position and into the "no motion" area between forward and reverse, the solenoid has already been thwarted. If while continuing to get off the seat I further bump the lever toward forward or reverse it'll go.

 

Ok a truly simple fix, fab up a "Y" fork that would be hinged/bolted to the shifter console plate, so during use it is out of the way, then when stopped simply flip the Y fork over to capture and block shifter from moving either direction, totally mechanical no electrical failures.

[Handy Don 12,237]

30 minutes ago, Lcarter114 said:

I will check the wiring for your 520H it might give me some ideas.

 

2 hours ago, Lcarter114 said:

 

I have a 1986 417A and I am wanting to add a safety switch to the transmission so that it will not move in forward or reverse if the operator is not on the seat. 

 

 

Not a 520-H. Making it not move is different than shutting down the engine.

[Handy Don 12,237]

2 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

 

 

Ok a truly simple fix, fab up a "Y" fork that would be hinged/bolted to the shifter console plate, so during use it is out of the way, then when stopped simply flip the Y fork over to capture and block shifter from moving either direction, totally mechanical no electrical failures.

 

I like this. It need only be a simple bar to flip fore/aft that blocks the lever from coming out of the neutral position. Bravo.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

17 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

I like this. It need only be a simple bar to flip fore/aft that blocks the lever from coming out of the neutral position. Bravo.

Standard flat hinge 1-2" wide by 3-4" long 

[Lcarter114 4]

55 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

 

 

Not a 520-H. Making it not move is different than shutting down the engine.

 The lever is a good idea.  I don't care if it doesn't move or shuts down the engine.  I just wanted to add the additional safety device.  I would prefer to shut down the engine, then there is no forgetting to set it.

[Handy Don 12,237]

3 hours ago, Lcarter114 said:

 The lever is a good idea.  I don't care if it doesn't move or shuts down the engine.  I just wanted to add the additional safety device.  I would prefer to shut down the engine, then there is no forgetting to set it.

I get this.

Just understand that by the time the engine knows to shut down, you may be mostly out of your seat and may even have feet on the ground. And then it'll take a few seconds for the engine to stop during which time the tractor could still move.

So let's be clear. To have the engine stop running (and not start running) whenever you are not seated is doable. Is that what you want?

[Ed Kennell 38,227]

Post removed

 

Edited March 12, 2021 by Ed Kennell