No Drill Doctor

[DennisThornton 4,769]

6 minutes ago, pullstart said:

If I could, I’d have a lot less scars on my left hand from the last year!

Mine's a little older than that, but it serves as a constant reminder still!  Just stupid!  (head shaking)

[WHX?? 49,190]

9 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Welder’up Uncle Jim!

It's just a older flux core with only two power settings but dirt cheap and good enough for me to cut my teeth on. Figured it be ok for tacking stuff together and closing up holes. Throw it in a tub with a genny and be ok for making emergency repairs on the plow field. 

[Ed Kennell 38,718]

16 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

I like the rotary dresser constantly moving back and forth for quickly reshaping a grind stone:

But I like the stone dresser for final finishing

I've bought several used bench grinders and I've often amazed at the condition of the wheels.  Not sure what they were doing, but it seems they were doing it all in one spot!

I have both a rotary and a diamond point dresser.

I very seldom use the rotary dresser unless I get a grinder with an abused wheel.

I get good results  with the diamond point with the guide running on the wheel rest.

 

 

[JAinVA 4,623]

Warning labels are everywhere and as stated here.  Some are to keep people from doing something stupid, getting hurt ,and suing someone with deep pockets.  No warning label ever taught me about the the dangers of side loading a grinder wheel. I learned this from spending 5 years learning the machining trade from some grizzled old timers. One tip is to support a new wheel with a metal rod and then tap the wheel lightly with a metal object to see if it rings. If the wheel does not ring then junk it as it most likely has an internal crack. Once mounted you should never stand in front  the grinder at first startup. I worked some time for a tool and die shop . One of my jobs was to sharpen the end mils we used. This type of wheel is made for side loads such at applied on a tool and cutter grinder.

Edited March 1, 2021 by JAinVA

[lynnmor 7,355]

First, the nonsense that using the side of a grinding wheel should not be done is an old wives tale, how on earth would you grind a slot on a surface grinder?  I have worked in the tool & die industry for well over half a century and do believe that I gained a bit of knowledge.  I still run my small shop and grind my own drills and have gotten pretty good at it using the face of the wheel, not the side.  Much of my work needed very small holes so I bought a professional drill grinder, later when I bought a CNC mill all drills had to cut, they are going to go or blow, so I bought a professional drill grinder for larger sizes.  Currently I can sharpen from .028" to .750 with the BW-70A and the BW-95C.   Black Diamond

[DennisThornton 4,769]

20 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

I have both a rotary and a diamond point dresser.

I very seldom use the rotary dresser unless I get a grinder with an abused wheel.

I get good results  with the diamond point with the guide running on the wheel rest.

 

 

Diamond point is on my list.  Glad to hear you like it.

An important part of the process it a light touch and some patience.  If the grinder vibrates the wheels are out of balance.  Holding the stone or diamond point firmly and just barely touching the wheel will help remove the out of round lessening the vibration.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

2 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

First, the nonsense that using the side of a grinding wheel should not be done is an old wives tale, how on earth would you grind a slot on a surface grinder?  I have worked in the tool & die industry for well over half a century and do believe that I gained a bit of knowledge.  I still run my small shop and grind my own drills and have gotten pretty good at it using the face of the wheel, not the side.  Much of my work needed very small holes so I bought a professional drill grinder, later when I bought a CNC mill all drills had to cut, they are going to go or blow, so I bought a professional drill grinder for larger sizes.  Currently I can sharpen from .028" to .750 with the BW-70A and the BW-95C.   Black Diamond

Wow!  Don't see one in my future though...

[Ed Kennell 38,718]

In the manufacture of hydro turbines we used 6" cup wheels in hand grinders with many men working side by side in confined spaces.

Before use , these wheels were tested in an enclosed test container before being put in service.

If a grinder was ever found resting on the stone wheel it was retested before use and the operator was cautioned about improper handling of a grinder.

 

 

 

 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

21 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

In the manufacture of hydro turbines we used 6" cup wheels in hand grinders with many men working side by side in confined spaces.

Before use , these wheels were tested in an enclosed test container before being put in service.

If a grinder was ever found resting on the stone wheel it was retested before use and the operator was cautioned about improper handling of a grinder.

 

 

 

 

I think that's a caution that is not offered enough, especially with thinner wheels and certainly with cutoff wheels!

[JAinVA 4,623]

I didn't know that OHSA believed in wives tales. Their OSM  publication specifically says not to use the side of a pedestal  grinding wheel unless the wheel is designed for that use. The grinding wheels that Ed spoke of were meant to be used in that manner.

Edited March 1, 2021 by JAinVA

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

2 hours ago, JAinVA said:

I didn't know that OHSA believed in wives tales. Their OSM  publication specifically says not to use the side of a pedestal  grinding wheel unless the wheel is designed for that use. The grinding wheels that Ed spoke of were meant to be used in that manner.

http://mens-shed-elermore-vale.com/blog/mens-sheds/bench-grinder-safety/.

[JAinVA 4,623]

Thanks for the link Jeff. You have done a great service to the folks here. I would encourage that it would be read if there is any doubt about  how to use or not use a pedestal grinder. The cautions there are not the opinions of one person but rather the combined wisdom and experience of the  industry.

Edited March 2, 2021 by JAinVA

[lynnmor 7,355]

Since this thread turned to safety, keep in mind that your Wheel Horse will likely have a maximum tow rating of 350 lb.  This needs to be reduced by the 100 lb wheel weights, the fill in tires and any other added weight so the brake can stop it.  This is just an example to show that common sense needs to be used whether it is tractors or grinding wheels.

[JAinVA 4,623]

lynnmor,

    I think your post is spot on. I certainly agree that folks should use common sense.  I do also believe that common sense is reinforced by factual information, especially in areas not generally known.  We as a group can't enjoy this hobby from a hospital bed or morgue. Luck JAinVA

Edited March 2, 2021 by JAinVA

[Horse Newbie 7,130]

Learned a lot...never changed a grinder wheel on a bench grinder...

Didn't know if you dropped it on the floor it was rubbish...

I like drill bits...

[Uncle Buck 246]

On 2/28/2021 at 6:59 PM, JAinVA said:

Have you ever seen a grinding wheel explode?  I have and it ain't pretty !  Side  loading  on a standard grinding wheel is a dangerous thing. Grinding wheels meant for a side load are bonded to a steel backing disk.

He nailed it, in the world of safety that is both against ANSI standards and OSHA standards which is what applies to work places. Standards and OSHA aside, that is a dangerous practice and one that will ultimately cost you dearly if a stone ever lets go on you which happens in the blink of an eye. If you are going to continue using that setup please find the operating instructions and set it up off of the face of the wheel, per the instructions. If the instructions include setting up from the side as you are now, then disregard those instructions and only follow instructions for grinding from the face of the wheel. I have worked in metal fabrication shops for over 30 years as a Safety Manager, and I have BS and MS degrees in Industrial Safety, and Safety Management. Additionally metal fabrication and machine shop work on manual equipment has been a hobby of mine for over 40 years.

 

Me and JAinVA are giving it to you right bud.

 

Edit: After reading the entire thread I was pleased to see others with like advice. Particularly pleasing was the excellent link one of the guys provided.

Edited April 23, 2021 by Uncle Buck

[WHX?? 49,190]

Absolutely right Uncle Buck and JA and  we thank for your words  but my rebuttal would be ANSI and OSHA have no business in my personal work shop as they do do in my professional work. That said my widow can put in my obit ...he died doing what he loved..... 

Tom you kinda opened up a can of worms here ... you best be wearing them safety glasses when that mill is spinning.  

[Horse Newbie 7,130]

On 4/22/2021 at 10:59 PM, WHX24 said:

he died doing what he loved

My wife tells me I work too hard around the house and that I should take more days off and rest...

I tell her "I waited 4 to 5 months to get out in the yard"...I can't sit in the house when the weather allows me to be outside.

I told her I would rather you find me dead in the yard, than dead in front of the TV...

Edited April 25, 2021 by Horse Newbie

[Uncle Buck 246]

On ‎4‎/‎22‎/‎2021 at 9:59 PM, WHX24 said:

Absolutely right Uncle Buck and JA and  we thank for your words  but my rebuttal would be ANSI and OSHA have no business in my personal work shop as they do do in my professional work. That said my widow can put in my obit ...he died doing what he loved..... 

Tom you kinda opened up a can of worms here ... you best be wearing them safety glasses when that mill is spinning.  

I could not agree more about what you do and how you do it in your shop being no ones business but your own and in fact feel likewise. That said, in an open discussion where countless shop savvy eyes, and the eyes of those not so seasoned or skilled in shop work and shop practices read discussions like this, references to acceptable safety practices and regulations applying to the workplace is logically what must be identified to justify why something is said to be unsafe. People with less shop experience might like to know that in the workplace something would be deemed unsafe. Some logic or reasoning beyond "because I said so" is why I mention ANSI/OSHA. I don't agree with many of the regulations OSHA has myself, but it is still beneficial to at least know a work activity or task has been deemed unsafe. At least the less seasoned home shop folks might dig deeper or ask more questions before choosing to do something that might injure them. That is why I use them as reference, not because any entities rules carry any weight in my home shop.   

 

[Handy Don 12,476]

3 minutes ago, Uncle Buck said:

That is why I use them as reference, not because any entities rules carry any weight in my home shop.

Thanks for your adds to the thread.

 

I'm always leery of the "it's only about me" justification for an action. I wonder if the speaker has taken into account people and organizations that depend on or insure the speaker's health and existence in any way, in other words those who would bear the burden of the speaker's disability or demise. Almost no one is truly independent and alone.

 

To know what entities with earned and proven knowledge of processes or actions deem unsafe is incredibly valuable (and yes, sometimes feels like a colossal PITA). For example, I wish I had known decades ago what operating noisy power equipment without ear protection would do to my hearing.

[Wheel Horse 3D 3,795]

On 2/28/2021 at 8:24 PM, WHX24 said:

 so try free handing it

How I always did mine, back in the mill operator days, takes a bit of practice, but does ok!

Biggest thing was did it a little, but frequently, rather than a bunch after really dulling the bit.

Unless of course ya snapped one! Lol

 

As far as safety and "rules"...they usually only exist cuz somebody did it that way once before.....

Edited May 26, 2021 by Wheel Horse 3D