Shifter Detent Installation - IMPOSSIBLE

[Playchess 14]

Hi Folks, 

 

I have a 5053 transmission with old style rails. I took it apart. Have the original spring, detent, and balls. They came out of it but.......  during the rebuild the ball keeps flying around the shop every time I try to press it into its passageway. My cat is blind now. I saw someone here, years ago, recommended chopsticks, and another said use a 7/32 (? I think) T handle allen wrench. 

 

Does any of this really work?? This task seems impossible. Any tricks?

Edited February 18, 2021 by Playchess
Added model number

[stevasaurus 22,863]

OK...play this video...I use a 1/8" or 3/16" Allen wrench to push the detente balls.  

 

 

Q to KR-7  check mate!!   Welcome to Red Square.  

[Playchess 14]

Oh thank you! I watched. You used a MAGNET! That's the trick. I don't have one that small so I'll the chop stick I just sanded/whittled to fit through the side hole. I carved a concave recess in the end...maybe....I'll let you know. 

 

That's a really helpful video. Thank you. 

 

(oh, but I was playing white)

[stevasaurus 22,863]

Use a little grease on the end of the chop stick.

 

I was using my favorite Defense for black.  The Sicilian.   

[953 nut 55,769]

3 hours ago, Playchess said:

Oh thank you! I watched. You used a MAGNET! That's the trick. I don't have one that small so I'll the chop stick I just sanded/whittled to fit through the side hole. I carved a concave recess in the end...maybe....I'll let you know. 

 

That's a really helpful video. Thank you. 

 

(oh, but I was playing white)

I made up a tool just for inserting the detent balls, don't have a picture but it is so simple you don't need a picture. I have a piece of 3/16" round stock that I ground flat on one side to allow the shift fork to slide down while holding the ball in place. A piece of wood dowel is used for the handle.

[Playchess 14]

16 hours ago, stevasaurus said:

Use a little grease on the end of the chop stick.

 

I was using my favorite Defense for black.  The Sicilian.   

Well I did it. The chop stick with a concave recess on the end fit the ball like a glove and I pushed in the recess on first try!

 

Hey Mr. Saurus Dude - Do you understand why stopping the brake/clutch gear doesn't stall the engine? Looking in this transmission, The drive gear is connected to the differential via hard gears when the transmission is in gear. I mean there is NO clutch. So applying the brake/clutch seems like it would make the engine stall. What am I missing??

 

Also, in your excellent video when you put the cluster gear on the splined shaft - I did not see the small keyed gear that goes in at the bottom to engage with the brake/clutch gear. Is that because the video obscured it or is there no gear on the bottom of the splined shaft, below the multi gear cluster?  My splined shaft, when taken apart, had a gear on each side of the multi-gear piece. Both of those gears are keyed. Please let me know your thoughts. 

 

Many thanks for sharing your expertise. I can't wait to get this thing running. Spec's say that in first gear there is a 66.7:1 ratio and that's after the 3:1 pulley reduction from the engine. Means first gear should be lots of pushing power (of course relative to a little machine) so I'm anxious to see how well it pushes. 

 

Thanks also 953 - I think I made the same tool -   

 

(Oh and @steve sicilian is a solid opening but I'm terrible with it. I keep getting attacked on king side and find my pieces stuck on the queen side unable to help. For black I use the phillador and for white the QGD - not because of the movie "The Queens Gambit" but because I've been using it for years. It's realtively tame compared to e4 openings. If you haven't seen the movie give it a try, I liked it and it gets good reviews on the chess sites I frequent)

Edited February 19, 2021 by Playchess
Added Chess reference for Steve

[Playchess 14]

HI All, 

 

I think I figured out the answer to my question above - I guess the brake pedal is not a brake/clutch pedal. Instead the pedal on the left is only for braking and the one on the right is the clutch?

 

If that's the case, then when going down a hill I will have to push both pedals down to change gears?  This is a little weird. 

[Achto 27,751]

25 minutes ago, Playchess said:

I guess the brake pedal is not a brake/clutch pedal. Instead the pedal on the left is only for braking and the one on the right is the clutch?

 

My C-141 has separate pedals also . It is a little hard to get used to, specially when my other 12 tractors have only one pedal for the clutch/brake.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Achto

[Playchess 14]

Thanks @achto  -   But it turns out I'm pretty devoid of thinking/looking heh

 

So this 854 tractor has a take-off arm that goes under the tractor from the brake/clutch pedal to the idler pulley on the right side. I didn't notice this before when I posted my dumb question. So the transmission DOES NOT provide any clutching and indeed would stall the engine if not for that mechanical linkage under the tractor. Pretty cool learning for me. 

 

Thanks all for your comments. 

 

 

[rmaynard 15,598]

44 minutes ago, Playchess said:

If that's the case, then when going down a hill I will have to push both pedals down to change gears?  This is a little weird. 

Gears should never be changed while the tractor is in motion. Here is a cut from my 8-speed owners manual

[oliver2-44 9,853]

When you push the clutch pedal that idler arm creates slack in the belt. There are some small belt guides and along with the belt guard pushes that slack around the engine pulley.  This is essentially how the clutch works on these horses.  With slach at the engine pulley which is still turning, the transmission pulley comes to a full stop so you can shift (and not grind gears)  It's important on these horses to have the belt guard in place or you will have difficulty shifting.  

[Lane Ranger 10,992]

22 hours ago, Playchess said:

Hi Folks, 

 

I have a 5053 transmission with old style rails. I took it apart. Have the original spring, detent, and balls. They came out of it but.......  during the rebuild the ball keeps flying around the shop every time I try to press it into its passageway. My cat is blind now. I saw someone here, years ago, recommended chopsticks, and another said use a 7/32 (? I think) T handle allen wrench. 

 

Does any of this really work?? This task seems impossible. Any tricks?

 

The chopsticks idea was my mother’s which we used on a 1054 Wheel Horse transmission rebuilt! It worked great!  You can put a dab of peanut butter on the end of chopstick and push it in detention hole.  Then push down the shift rail.  Breaking the chopstick  is no problem! 
 

 

[Playchess 14]

@Lane Ranger thanks for the nice message. I DIDN'T break the chopstick, can you believe it? I did simultaneous wiggle/push/pull and wahla!  I wonder a little bit if the ball is in the bottom of the shift lever but the detent feels very strong and both shifters feel the same so I think I got it. 

 

This is my first time in a transmission and it's fun. 

 

Thanks all

[stevasaurus 22,863]

The guys are correct about the clutch.  The belt guard funnels the slack in the belt toward the drive pulley on the engine.  The input gear on the trans comes to a stop allowing you to shift gears without grinding.  These transmissions are very stout and I think you will be amazed at what they can do.  They are also very easy to work on...the quality is there.

 

There is a keyed pinion gear on the bottom of the cluster gear shaft...under the cluster gear.  Most of the time, they are keyed.  In the video, that pinion was welded onto the cluster gear shaft.  That is why it's kind of hid, but it is there.  When they are not welded, the trick is to hold that pinion while placing the shaft with the cluster gear on it.  

 

I almost always open with the Queen's Gambit when white.  Whether declined or not, the Q-BP ends up being sacrificed and opens that line.  You are right about the Sicilian.  If I lose that game, it is because I got my pieces stacked up.  If it starts to look like that is going to happen, I like to trade down and clear the board.  I think we would enjoy playing sometime.  

[WHX?? 49,157]

Sounds like the fellas have you covered so I'll just  

[Playchess 14]

@stevasaurus  well if you're ever on lichess.org, which is a totally free (really) open source chess site, my name is killF7. I will play rated or casual with anyone because I don't value the rating for someone who plays at my level. It's just for fun. But please don't play if losing would bother you when I come here. I have lost 1000s of games and the sting/fear/shame/etc is gone. It's all academic for me, not much emotion about it anymore. Getting old has it's advantages doesn't it? But some people get real hot over chess and I don't want that. So come play for fun. Sounds like you have enjoyed a game or two as well. Come one come all. lichess.org   @killF7     I play a couple of games almost everyday. 

 

[stevasaurus 22,863]

I'm on PlayChess.com  Losing doesn't bother me, that is how I learn.  I've been playing the computer and I can beat the intermediate level guys once in a while.  I'll check out that site.  Do you Skype??

 

 

[Playchess 14]

No on skype in the past but I guess I could. There's a button for it on my computer but I never pressed it.