Gravel Kohler (K301?) revival/questions

[seuadr 488]

Hey all -  a couple of years ago, i picked up a Gravely 5665 basket case for real cheap with the intention of getting it back together and using it, but, like usually happens life got in the way and i'm just now getting around to this project.

i am a bit fuzzy on all of the details - but the jist of it is a gentleman had the motor rebuilt in a shop and when he went to put it back together himself, he heard a loud pop and thought he broke something and proceeded to shelve it and buy a new gravely. (lucky him, right!)
 

fast forward a couple of decades and i picked it up from him. I've got some pictures below.

the things that i have new to replace missing or unknown quality parts: new points, condensor, coil, wire and plugs and a new carb.

 

motor rolls over and has compression on the power stroke per my uncalibrated hand-o-mometer seems OK - my uneducated guess is that the timing was off? now onto the unknowns - see the pictures below.

 

picture 1 - this looks like perhaps a crank driven fuel pump? if so - how bad are the gaskets and such to get for that?

 

picture 2 - this was in the box'o'mysterious parts and is clearly broken... but is it applicable to the motor at all? the rest of the pictures - quick photos of the rest of the motor from each side.

 

i am ASSUMING that this is a K301 - that is what came on these stock, but i haven't located a tag yet (didn't look real hard - it is freaking COLD out!)

 

i am assuming that once i can confirm what model it is i'll be able to check the timing, i'm new to kohler singles, but i've done a fair amount of old motorcycle and lawn equipment tinkering so i think it is likely that i'll be able to muddle through that *(at least with this groups help!) any input would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

 

[Achto 27,562]

This is the only place that makes rebuild kits for the metal body Kohler fuel pumps.

 

https://www.then-now-auto.com/kohler-fuel-pumps-2/ 

Down load a Kohler manual from our manuals section. It is very good with walk through's on the engine service. If the PO heard a bang, I would at least pull the oil pan off from that engine to see if there is physical damage. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Achto

[seuadr 488]

thanks! seems pretty reasonable in price. I also considered replacing it with a low pressure electric pump, since it is electric start and has a charging system. I did that with the 520H in the background and have been pleased with it.|

i assume my guess on that being the fuel pump was correct, then?

 

[Achto 27,562]

2 hours ago, seuadr said:

 

Yes, this pic is the fuel pump. You can also get a new OEM or after market pump to replace the one that you have. Either one on the new ones will have a plastic body.

 

An electric pump would also be a viable alternative.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Achto

[seuadr 488]

think i could run this gravity fed off a bottle to see if it fires over? it is a carb, so i am assuming so?

[seuadr 488]

well i spent some time in the cold to take a further look at this motor:

 

 

and found the timing marks:

 

first one (assuming this is a clockwise rotation motor?):

 

Second one:

 

when the first one is on the case's mark, the points are not quite fully open (and still opening):

 

they close around 120 degrees past the first mark. is this backwards?

 

i have new points, new coil, new plugs and wire and a new carb, i didn't wanna pull the old points off until i was more sure of how the new points should be positioned when they are on.

 

speaking of plugs, the new plug is wayyyy longer than the original:

 

 

but i assume it is OK unless there is interference from the hood or something.

 

 

 

 

[seuadr 488]

now that i'm looking at this on a computer - does this seem normal?:

 

[953 nut 55,168]

Your ignition points should begin to open twenty degrees before TDC turning the flywheel clockwise they should continue to open to a maximum of .020" and the begin to close.

The new H-10C is the correct spark plug for this engine.

[seuadr 488]

8 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

Your ignition points should begin to open twenty degrees before TDC turning the flywheel clockwise they should continue to open to a maximum of .020" and the begin to close.

The new H-10C is the correct spark plug for this engine.

yeah so this is backwards - i bet it fired on an open exhaust valve and that was the loud noise the previous owner heard. 

 

i'll have to get a wheel for the degrees but that is a great starting point, thanks!

 

as has been mentioned on other sites, i'll pull the oil pan and make sure there isn't any metal in there, but i think that there will not be.

[seuadr 488]

another question - i've read about a "s" and "t" mark on the flywheel - the first mark running clockwise looks like..maybe an s?

[Achto 27,562]

7 minutes ago, seuadr said:

another question - i've read about a "s" and "t" mark on the flywheel - the first mark running clockwise looks like..maybe an s?

 

The "S" is the advance mark. If you do what is called static timing, the "S" should be in the sight hole on the shroud or bearing plate (which ever has the sight hole) just as the points break continuity. This is the best way to time a Kohler with points. I have a good pdf on this give me a few to find it.

[seuadr 488]

2 minutes ago, Achto said:

 

The "S" is the advance mark. If you do what is called static timing, the "S" should be in the sight hole on the shroud or bearing plate (which ever has the sight hole) just as the points break continuity. This is the best way to time a Kohler with points. I have a good pdf on this give me a few to find it.

i have a 4 page doc about this by © Matt Gonitzke seems pretty straightfoward.

 

[Playchess 14]

I absolutely love the pictures you've posted. Really clear, good focus, up close and personal, and what an awesome shop! Looks just like mine. 

 

 

[seuadr 488]

11 minutes ago, Playchess said:

I absolutely love the pictures you've posted. Really clear, good focus, up close and personal, and what an awesome shop! Looks just like mine. 

 

 

thanks! i am blessed/cursed with having not just my dad's tools to add to my own, but also my grandfather's and a great uncles. i have 3 stacked toolboxes of stuff and a bunch of woodworking tools that i wish i had the time and patience to use properly

[seuadr 488]

next question! 

 

this motor is for a gravely 5665 2 wheel tractor - I have this thread posted on a number of sites and on one of the other sites a user thinks that output gears to the high/low assembly is too worn to be usable:

 

 

 

I don't feel like they are all that bad? Thoughts?

 

[Playchess 14]

I am both a newbie and novice, but for what it's worth I think those gears have years of good use left on them. The slight curvature on the gears is not wear, it's the way they cut them. I think. ??

 

And again - look at those pictures...gears look good enough to eat

Edited February 19, 2021 by Playchess
picture comment

[oliver2-44 9,726]

Those gears look great, a little wear, but tons of usage left in them.  

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

@seuadr, may I kindly suggest you becoming a supporter here, so then you can continue to post as many pictures you want/need without interruptions... https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/store/

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

2 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

@seuadr, may I kindly suggest you becoming a supporter here, so then you can continue to post as many pictures you want/need without interruptions... https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/store/

[seuadr 488]

2 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

@seuadr, may I kindly suggest you becoming a supporter here, so then you can continue to post as many pictures you want/need without interruptions... https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/store/

Thanks for the suggestion - i have been in the past but have been inactive for probably 4 or 5 years and so have not kept up.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

Just now, seuadr said:

Thanks for the suggestion - i have been in the past but have been inactive for probably 4 or 5 years and so have not kept up.

Its all good like I said suggestion.

[The Tuul Crib 7,336]

1 minute ago, seuadr said:

Thanks for the suggestion - i have been in the past but have been inactive for probably 4 or 5 years and so have not kept up.

I just recently picked up a 5260 gravley

it has a Kohler 181 on it! Would like to see some more pictures of what you have a little curious!

[seuadr 488]

For now i'm stuck waiting on a fuel pump and the linkages.

[seuadr 488]

10 minutes ago, The Tuul Crib said:

I just recently picked up a 5260 gravley

it has a Kohler 181 on it! Would like to see some more pictures of what you have a little curious!

well right now, the machine is in the back of a barn and the motor was in my garage near the toolbox. i suppose i'll have to get that out of the back of the barn at some point in the near future though

 

i got dumb lucky on it - When my father in law passed, i asked if i could have his gravely L8 and attachments, so i brought that home and was looking for attachments and came across a guy selling a "dogeater" snowblower for 25 dollars. so i went and picked it up, and spied the 5665 sitting the barn. asked him if it was for sale, and he said he'd probably sell it at some point, but the motor was in the back of his garage under a work bench and he couldn't get to it.

 

well, then he listed wheel spacers with extra wheels and chains, again for 25 dollars. so i told him i'd buy those too!

 

we talked a little and i said listen, i gotta be honest with you - you are selling stuff for a lot less than you probably could and he agreed - said he just wanted to get it gone, so i pressed him again about the 5665 and he said tell you what - you come get it this evening, and i'll sell you everything i have left for 100 dollars. DONE!

 

turns out he had the 5665, steering brakes (unused!) remote air filter, 2 sets of wheels and tires, wheel spacers, chains for all 4 tires, extra brake shoes and the motor had been rebuilt but not run.

 

he explained that he'd tried to put it back together and when he went to start it there was a loud BANG and he figured he broke something and bought a new one.

 

so i picked it up and stuffed it in the back of my barn to work on "tomorrow" about 4 years ago

[Playchess 14]

@seuadr given your behavior from that story we were separated at birth.    Now go out to the barn/garage/pond whatever TOMORROW !!!!!!