Eaton 1100 Experts

[JCM 9,383]

I have many questions that are unanswered and would appreciate having someone with more knowledge than myself pass that on to me. I will start with a little background first. I bought a 1993  520-H on 6-28-00 with 611 hrs. Did all maintenance required. At 642 hrs the Toro oil filter at the gasket end blew up like a soda can that was left out in freezing weather. ( I do have some of this info on another thread but don't know where) .  I then talked to my dealer who called Toro and they gave us the name of a Company in Michigan to send it out for service. The pictures included show the work I did myself to get it ready for shipment and the plywood box I made to ship the pump in. I pulled the complete transaxle out because someone had done work to this before and replaced 1 hydraulic line with a hose which I wanted to install an OEM line. I did also find remnants of Orange permatex gasket maker and knew that could be trouble. Pump came back, reinstalled and never an issue even to this day I believe with the new owner. Questions , Now that I own 3  1100's, 1 on a 91  520-H, 1 on a 418-A and 1 on a 420 LSE wondering what the proper procedure is when I want to push them in the shop or open the door to the outside and push them out. Is this basically forbidden or not such a big deal. In the 520 manual it mentions to push the column mounted Hydro lever forward first. It has been many years since I have tried that but I remember the usual clicking sound then locking up which I think is correct ? On the 418 and 420 it has the dis/ engagement lever, if I pull that up does that allow me to push those but still not recommended. The aforementioned tractors do not lock up, is this normal. Before tranny work pic on the trailer and after pic next to the 89 312-8.  Thanks all for your time, much appreciated.     Jim

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

From my experiences you can push(or tow) as long as it is at a "snails" pace basically walking speed any faster is when it starts clicking and locks up, I believe it's from the fact that the tires are now driving the pump in "reverse" instead of the pump driving the tires if you get what I am saying here, yes it would be nice to have "neutral" (I believe the xi series has LNH) or a tow valve, now as my experiences are limited to use and no issues as of yet I will let others add to this. 

[JCM 9,383]

Thanks Jeff,  I don't ever remember pushing the 93  520 before or after pump fix. I do remember the 91  520 not being able to push it more than 3 or 4' without the loud click and stopping no mater what the position of the hydro lever on the column is.

[Goldnboy 935]

The experience I have had with the Eaton was in the Workhorse GT1848 which used the same Eaton 1100 transmission as a 520. I was able to push the transmission while in neutral while in the shop. There were a few times I would push it pretty fast but it didn't push any harder than the 8 speed tractor I have. The only issue I ever had is that the Eaton's reverse speed seemed to be much slower than that on a 8 speed.

[Handy Don 12,460]

'95 Eaton 1100 without a disengage clutch pushes easily in either direction for creeping it around the garage with no noise. I do move the motion lever to a forward position first. (And then when I go to start it and there isn't even a click I whack myself on the forehead as I remember it's not in neutral!)

[JCM 9,383]

I was thinking that maybe the clicking and then lock up may mean the pump was in better condition than no click/lock up on an abused and un maintained pump ?  I am patiently awaiting opinions.   

[Handy Don 12,460]

1 minute ago, JCM said:

I was thinking that maybe the clicking and then lock up may mean the pump was in better condition than no click/lock up on an abused and un maintained pump ?  I am patiently awaiting opinions.   

When looking through Eaton's support page for these seeking additional documents, I noticed that there have been A LOT of versions. Could be different years have different behaviors?

 

I've also noticed that when descending a steep-is grade I can "hold back" the tractor by selecting a slow speed with the motion control, just like the 8-speed.  But if it gets to neutral, the tractor will start to roll freely instead of locking up. Brake to a stop and reverse and it'll just back right up the hill with no hesitation.

[WVHillbilly520H 10,374]

17 minutes ago, JCM said:

I was thinking that maybe the clicking and then lock up may mean the pump was in better condition than no click/lock up on an abused and un maintained pump ?  I am patiently awaiting opinions.   

Mine would click/lock up from new, being used to gear drives that you could just kick in neutral and push out the way, and instead of just hopping on starting and moving I tried pushing my 520 a couple times and if going slow it did fine if in a hurry and went too fast, click click click and tire sliding to a halt.

[JCM 9,383]

Valid point on the descending a grade. I have put maybe 10 hours on the 418 and 420 total between the 2. We have a slight grade in our yard at the garage and I'm thinking I have to pull back on the motion control lever to control the speed but not on the 520 ?  I will have to monitor that one  @Handy Don  

[JCM 9,383]

4 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

 I tried pushing my 520 a couple times and if going slow it did fine if in a hurry and went too fast, click click click and tire sliding to a halt.

Yes, exactly on the 520. Now we are getting somewhere.   

[Handy Don 12,460]

1 minute ago, JCM said:

Yes, exactly on the 520. Now we are getting somewhere.   

There are pressure bypass valves in there. Wonder if they come into play when the pump isn't pumping?

[JCM 9,383]

It's going to take someone smarter than me to figure this one out. Either that or members that have both the 520 and older models without the disengagement lever ?

[Ed Kennell 38,635]

I have four 1100s some with and some w/o engine disengagement feature.      Like Jeff said above, I can push them all with ease if I go slow.   I recently towed one home when a drive belt broke.

As far as the disengagement feature, It makes it easier on the starter and battery, but I don't believe it has any effect on the towing /pushing  ability.      I have never pushed one fast enough for the pump to cause the belt to move.     Now,  the lift delay on some 1100s and not others is still a mystery. 

 

BTW,  the Eaton 700s, don't even try to push them.  Jack em up and put a dolly under each wheel.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Ed Kennell

[JCM 9,383]

1 hour ago, Goldnboy said:

. The only issue I ever had is that the Eaton's reverse speed seemed to be much slower than that on a 8 speed.

Just as an example for you according to my 417-8 owners manual the reverse speed on a 400 series 8 speed in high range is 2.6 mph and on a hydro = variable 0-4.5 Not sure if this pertains to your GT-1848 @Stepney would possibly be able to confirm that. Also your 1100 may need and adjustment ?

[Handy Don 12,460]

41 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

BTW,  the Eaton 700s, don't even try to push them.  Jack em up and put a dolly under each wheel

I suspect the PO's habit of frequently rolling the 518-H (Eaton 700) off a truck bed ramp very fast to unload it was a factor in the hydro pump's having metal powder floating in its oil after only 400 hours. It had a disengage so the motor didn't try to spin but.... It's now a parts tractor.

It's been said here many times: Treat 'em right and maintain 'em and they will give many years of good service

[pfrederi 17,866]

I can roll my 418A (1100) around the shop.  I don't always remember to place the motion control I the direction I am going .  if I go slow its quiet a bit faster and it clicks but doesn't lock up.  Don't go very far a few feet at most.    Now a good Sunstrand will stop dead after a 1/4 wheel turn if the tow valve is closed.

[JoeM 7,874]

52 minutes ago, JCM said:

Eaton's reverse speed

Really not a Eaton issue they can run fast both ways.  Figured Wheel horse wanted to limit reverse speeds. The notch in the hydro plate is not as deep for reverse as it is in the forward position. I have taken a die grinder and lengthened one to get more oomph in reverse on a FEL .

 

All of the ones that I have, the strong ones click and stop when pushed. I did have one that was worn out and it could be pushed pretty easy. Figure the motor was bypassing a lot. 

As far as pushing and noises. I figure the noise is the acceleration valves relieving (clicking). The oil is trapped between the motor and the pump and is not designed to work in reverse. The motor is fixed displacement and of course the pump is variable. When the motor becomes a pump it delivers way more oil the the variable pump can take, even in the stroked position. Pressure builds and dumps. I would say if you got carried away and towed one hard on dry pavement the acceleration valves might jut crap out.  

That and $1.49 get ya a cup at Sheetz!

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by JoeM

[JCM 9,383]

58 minutes ago, JoeM said:

 

 

All of the ones that I have, the strong ones click and stop when pushed. I did have one that was worn out and it could be pushed pretty easy. Figure the motor was bypassing .

Is there a repair that can be made to one that pushes to easy to fix the by-pass issue by a professional shop that specializes in Hydro pumps or does the pump need to be scrapped and replaced. Also what year and model were yours.    Thanks

[Stepney 2,325]

My 18/14-48 runs about as fast in reverse as it does forward, its a bit unnerving after coming off a Sundstrand tractor. Top speed is about 7mph both ways. Linkage wear seems really common on the 1100. I recently sold a 312-H that was awfully slow forward, and quick in reverse, simply due to wear on the motion cam. Only had about 300 hours on it. My 1848 was more or less entirely overhauled by the PO 10 years ago and saw little use, since he passed away shortly after. I imagine the cam is new, and I've noticed the last two years of service it's already showing wear and acting different. 

As for pushing speed, I am not sure. If I am gentle, it pushes fine. Go too quick and it rattles like some of them do, wait about five minutes before trying again. Seems to create pressure. Someone here explained it all once, but I've long forgotten where. 

[JoeM 7,874]

35 minutes ago, JCM said:

what year and model were yours

The easy pusher was a C145 1982 I changed the unit out and it was good to go. Transaxle was like new. 

 

Rebuilding, I figure the cost would be way more than finding a donor. I know there is a rebuild manual on this site. Never really checked on the parts. Out of the 6 machines I have had, only that one was an issue. When it got hot, it slowed down and lost torque. I even put some 40w oil in it and that didn't work.

 

One thing I am doing now is I switched to IH high trans fluid. The additive package is more in line with the application. It is a 10w30 oil. The two machines that are switched are way smoother and don't need to warm up as much to get the charge pressure going. 

[Handy Don 12,460]

1 hour ago, Stepney said:

Linkage wear seems really common on the 1100

Agree. Also, I've noted in other posts an obstructed linkage was keeping mine from even using the full range of the existing cam slot.

 

3 hours ago, JoeM said:

I have taken a die grinder and lengthened [the slot in the cam] to get more oomph in reverse on a FEL .

See above. Other places in the linkage may limit the reverse direction of the motion control, too.

 

I've noticed that the cam is worn some (the cam eccentric bolt is nearing a 90º offset to get it adjusted so that that it neutrals correctly from both forward and reverse motion settings.

[Turftech 82]

There are apparent differences internally on the 1100s depending on the year built in regards to moving a non operating tractor. I have five 500 class with 1100 pumps as follows:

two original 1988 520H, will not move more than 2-3 feet before lockup. One 1993 and one 1994, move the motion control in the direction you wish to go and just push.

The last one is a hybrid 1988 516H purchased with a bad Eaton 700, removed the pump, flushed out the trans axle, re plumed accordingly and added a 1993 1100 pump. Move the motion control and just push. 

Stepney, If you did not know, Motion Industries in Portland is the authorized Eaton distributor for parts & service.   .   

[Handy Don 12,460]

2 hours ago, Turftech said:

There are apparent differences internally on the 1100s depending on the year built in regards to moving a non operating tractor. I have five 500 class with 1100 pumps as follows:

two original 1988 520H, will not move more than 2-3 feet before lockup. One 1993 and one 1994, move the motion control in the direction you wish to go and just push.

The last one is a hybrid 1988 516H purchased with a bad Eaton 700, removed the pump, flushed out the trans axle, re plumed accordingly and added a 1993 1100 pump. Move the motion control and just push. 

Stepney, If you did not know, Motion Industries in Portland is the authorized Eaton distributor for parts & service.   .   

Thanks for posting this and for having such a good collection to work with!

Have to ask your "after" impression of making the 700 to 1100 switch? Worth the time and effort (and cost)?

[JoeM 7,874]

7 hours ago, Turftech said:

differences internally

I can't seem to find any in the info from WH. Part numbers all the same etc. 

I looked at the option list from Eaton, they are external options like input bearing, shaft differences, accelerator valves or charge pressures. That kind of stuff. 

I would not tow an Eaton 1100 machine. Push only by hand, I think you maybe asking for trouble down the road.

[Turftech 82]

I have two 516H the performance difference of the 1100 side by side is amazing. With that said, the Eaton 700 has performed flawlessly for ten years mowing, plowing, and now has my backup single stage sno-tho on it.

The 516H with the 1100 has spent the last three years at the golf club as a "worker" grooming & repairing cart paths. The 700 would never survived grading up to four hours at a time in the summer.