How much weight is to much

[moe1965 743]

I was just wondering how much these rear ends can handle . I have heard more is better but I don't want to crack the cast rear end with to much. I have 300 lbs stacked on the back and I think the wheel weights are 25 ea.  I use the tractor primarily for snow blowing.  Am I overkill with the weight.  Thanks I advance 

[squonk 41,164]

You got the weight close to the axle centerline. That's good.  Too much farther out will not only stress the trans and frame,but take weight off the front for steering. I run loaded tires and wheel weights.

[JoeM 7,874]

400 in the weight box on the FEL plus 100 each tire. No issues so far.

[AMC RULES 37,132]

 Now that's a cool stack!  

[Skipper 1,788]

Weight in and on tires/wheels is of no real concern, as that do not affect the load on the axles, if you disregard the momentum in stopping and starting that is. Only what is mounted on the "inside" of the wheel axles matters here, where we talk forces acting down on the axles. 

 

If you move the load longer back, you make the front lighter, as your rear axle are the pivot point in that equation, but it does not put any more weight on them. 

 

300 lbs. is of no concern. I have had a whole lot more than that on, and I have had Zero issues. In fact, I have never heard of anyone cracking the cast arm off a tranny. And believe me, if I could have snapped one, I would have.

Edited February 13, 2021 by Skipper

[Lee1977 6,673]

I also have my receiver hitch braced down to the transmission hitch so the axle housing doesn't support all the weight. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,695]

4 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

I also have my receiver hitch braced down to the transmission hitch so the axle housing doesn't support all the weight. 

 

 

 

That would be a good safeguard. 

Spread the forces around. 

 

I have a hitch that bolts front to back around the square of the axle. No other supports currently. 

I've pulled some rugged loads out the forest. 

No issues. 

 

Nice pile o steel there. 

[moe1965 743]

Lee1977 I like your added support to the trans hitch better than my bolt that I have touching the lower hitch for some weight transfer off the axle I think I have a project for tomorrow.    

Edited February 14, 2021 by moe1965

[lynnmor 7,315]

1 hour ago, Skipper said:

300 lbs. is of no concern. I have had a whole lot more than that on, and I have had Zero issues. In fact, I have never heard of anyone cracking the cast arm off a tranny. And believe me, if I could have snapped one, I would have.

 

I have posted twice about my cracked transmission case.  I will never go more than about 150 lbs. again.  Remember that adding weight will give you more to stop and more to get back up the hill, it isn't all positive.

 

[Handy Don 12,244]

2 hours ago, JoeM said:

400 in the weight box on the FEL plus 100 each tire. No issues so far.

Is your weight on the subframe or the transaxle?

If on the subframe (or an extension of the plow frame), there is no torque on the transaxle--the weight is just downward.

If it is attached ONLY to the transaxle, no matter where except directly downward on the rear axle, then that weight is exerting torque on the joint between the front frame and the transmission/transaxle housing by pivoting around the rear axle.

 

I agree with @Skipper that 300 lbs, set close to the rear axle and well supported by both the axle housings and the rear hitch pin is highly unlikely to fail. It may be that much more is possible, but those four bolts holding the front to the back, and the bracket that holds them are the weakest link in the chain.

 

And there have been transaxle housing failures.  @lynnmor has posted images. YMMV

 

@moe1965, not sure how much pressure is being carried by the bolt (red arrow added to your image) but connecting directly to the pin with braces (blue arrow added to @Lee1977's image) puts less "tongue weight" on the drawbar hitch.

             

Edited February 14, 2021 by Handy Don

[BeninCT 451]

@lynnmor where was that crack?

 

I would think these rear ends would be more easily damaged in low/1st pulling something where there is no tire slip. Bounce a couple times against a chain and multiply the loads by multiples. 

 

That said, I think 300 is a lot unless its wheel weights, filled tires (unsprung weight) but hanging that off the back cant be good in the long run.  

Never been inside but these axles are riding on bushing nots bearings right?

Edited February 14, 2021 by BeninCT

[lynnmor 7,315]

2 minutes ago, BeninCT said:

@lynnmor where was that crack?

 

I would think these rear ends would be more easily damaged in low/1st pulling something where there is no tire slip. Bounce a couple times against a chain and multiply the loads by multiples. 

 

That said, I think 300 is a lot unless its wheel weights, filled tires (unstrung weight) but hanging that off the back cant be good in the long run.  

Never been inside but these axles are riding on bushing nots bearings right?

 

The axles run directly on needle bearings.

 

The crack was midway between the case bolts at the rear, about the same level as the axles.  My opinion is that the long distance between the bolts is part of the problem.  It is almost impossible to see in the photo, I found it when I saw the slow drip.

 

[Lee1977 6,673]

20 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Is your weight on the subframe or the transaxle?

If on the subframe (or an extension of the plow frame), there is no torque on the transaxle--the weight is just downward.

If it is attached ONLY to the transaxle, no matter where except directly downward on the rear axle, then that weight is exerting torque on the joint between the front frame and the transmission/transaxle housing by pivoting around the rear axle.

 

I agree with @Skipper that 300 lbs, set close to the rear axle and well supported by both the axle housings and the rear hitch pin is highly unlikely to fail. It may be that much more is possible, but those four bolts holding the front to the back, and the bracket that holds them are the weakest link in the chain.

 

 

        

I got the transmission to frame covered too.

 

I ground the edges of the 1/4" x 1 1/2" flats so they would fit back between the ridges on the transmission plate'

Edited February 14, 2021 by Lee1977

[roadapples 6,983]

Don't  know what this weights, but  I  couldn't pick it up with the loader before it was installed. But I  could pick up  my 2 stage blower and carry it. I think the blower is about 380lbs...

[JoeM 7,874]

6 hours ago, Handy Don said:

Is your weight on the subframe or the transaxle?

Sub frame. 

Wheel Horse Optional Weight Box for the FEL is a separate installation and it would have the same effect at the bracket mentioned. They recommend 280lbs minimum.

The Hydro is a heavy case. Needle bearings at the axle end and support rollers for the axle/pinion arrangement. I would be more concerned about the fabricated part cracking or failure. @Lee1977 shows the upgraded area.

I have run these machine pretty hard. I have a 1/2" fabricated dozer blade I made up when redoing the house 25 years ago. Had it on my B100 and it took a beating. Ran good. 

I don't see the concern and if you not comfortable take some off. 

 

 

[Skipper 1,788]

Ok, so I should obviously have said IMO. Sorry.

 

I regularly have 600+ lbs hanging on mine, + a heavier engine and front weights to hold it down. Also have somewhere about 1000lbs in the wheels. When it is heaviest, it weighs in at 1.25 ton. I would estimate 1.1 ton on the rear axle + driver. That all needs to bump around, and be stopped and started + the added traction of all that weight. + the added stress from running wildly oversized wheels. All good so far.

 

If the trannies were prone to cracking, I would think we would have heard a lot more cases of it, especially if you take into consideration what they are put thru all the time. Roughly same setup on heavier D series, tractors with backhoes and FEL. Puller tractors. heavy things dangling in 3 pt. hitches. Blades and graders, mounted directly to the tranny arms, and slammed into something. And a whole host of other ways to beat the crap out of these little machines. So no, I'm sorry, but I do not buy it. 300lbs extra load, if mounted right, will in all likelihood be of no concern. IMO that is, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

But, of cause it matters how you attach the weight to your machine. Also one could imagine that a tranny could have a one in a million week spot from the forging process, making it crack. So the best option when ever you can, is of cause to let the frame work take the load...............

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

5 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Ok, so I should obviously have said IMO. Sorry.

 

I regularly have 600+ lbs hanging on mine, + a heavier engine and front weights to hold it down. Also have somewhere about 1000lbs in the wheels. When it is heaviest, it weighs in at 1.25 ton. I would estimate 1.1 ton on the rear axle + driver. That all needs to bump around, and be stopped and started + the added traction of all that weight. + the added stress from running wildly oversized wheels. All good so far.

 

If the trannies were prone to cracking, I would think we would have heard a lot more cases of it, especially if you take into consideration what they are put thru all the time. Roughly same setup on heavier D series, tractors with backhoes and FEL. Puller tractors. heavy things dangling in 3 pt. hitches. Blades and graders, mounted directly to the tranny arms, and slammed into something. And a whole host of other ways to beat the crap out of these little machines. So no, I'm sorry, but I do not buy it. 300lbs extra load, if mounted right, will in all likelihood be of no concern. IMO that is, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

But, of cause it matters how you attach the weight to your machine. Also one could imagine that a tranny could have a one in a million week spot from the forging process, making it crack. So the best option when ever you can, is of cause to let the frame work take the load...............

Those trannys are just beast!

[Ed Kennell 38,249]

Never a problem with mine.

[JoeM 7,874]

@Ed Kennell I dig that light. I thought about putting one on after the goofball neighbor just about ran me over plowing the drive. 

 

Are those tires 9.50's on the back?

Edited February 14, 2021 by JoeM

[Ed Kennell 38,249]

1 hour ago, JoeM said:

 

 

Are those tires 9.50's on the back?

Yep, 23X9.5   6ply Deestones.

[Ed Kennell 38,249]

16 hours ago, moe1965 said:

I was just wondering how much these rear ends can handle . I have heard more is better but I don't want to crack the cast rear end with to much. I have 300 lbs stacked on the back and I think the wheel weights are 25 ea.  I use the tractor primarily for snow blowing.  Am I overkill with the weight.  Thanks I advance 

 

 

 Moe, My concern is the amount of weight on the factory drawbar.  The other end of that bar is a small area that could punch a hole up thru the bottom of the case.

I also use the drawbar to support my weight bracket, but I insert a plate between the case and the drawbar to spread out the load.

[haydendavid380 759]

If you're worried about it, start low and add weight as needed. 

 

I have 110lbs in wheel weights plus me and haven't needed more. 

[roadapples 6,983]

IMO pushing snow and running  into frozen snow banks is one of the hardest things you can do to a transmission. But it doesn't  seem  to  hurt the  transmission, just the rear of the frame...my 

[Ed Kennell 38,249]

                                                  X2           Every time that blade hits a solid object, the frame to tranny connection sees a 500lb impact.

[tom2p 2,394]

1 minute ago, Ed Kennell said:

                                                  X2           Every time that blade hits a solid object, the frame to tranny connection sees a 500lb impact.

we might need to set up a drivetrain abuse hotline