312-8 Hoodstand Lift Lever shaft ??

[Brockport Bill 1,748]

I am original owner 1989 WH 312-8 model 21-12k806 --- 31 years of joy to date --- i am on my first venture of taking apart various pieces/sections and doing modest restoring and updating efforts - and the good minds on this Forum have been a great help with a few prior questions over recent weeks ----  as i take apart the back end and migrate towards the middle console area I find more issues and thoughts of replacing/updating pieces and parts - I came across what appears to be a broken ring, or flange, or bearing, collar type piece just inside the left lever shaft between what apparently is called the "hoodstand" and the big clip pins on the lift shaft - I have looked at the online parts photos and can not really tell what it is???? I have not disassembled the console or hoodstand or removed the left arm or battery yet --- did not have that in my plans until I saw this broken "ring" - before I take more apart  - can someone tell me what this is? Does this happen commonly??  I am totally guessing but wondering if it is part of the flange rim  that maybe wore off ?? Part # 106269??? I notice also there is considerable play in where the lift lever arm shaft goes thru the wall of the "hoodstand" suggesting the whole the shaft goes thru has widened from wear? I am hoping some forum folks know what I am speaking about and may have some insights before i take the further adventure ( and anxiety) of more dissembling? as always thanks  -- Bill

[Maxwell-8 4,359]

8 hours ago, Brockport Bill said:

Can someone tell me what this is?

It looks like part of the bushing.

[953 nut 56,181]

The greatest difficulty will be separating the lift arm shaft (#46) from the trunnion shaft (#19). They tend to rust in-between the two pieces and sometimes need to be heated up to break the brown weld (RUST) bond between them. Once you have it apart the new bushings can be found at any good industrial supply house.

[peter lena 8,877]

BILL, agree with 953 nut , with that picture info, you can quickly gain on your brown rust with aerosol spray tube to detail it . you might also find your bushing and related parts at a local h/w store. ACE HARDWARE , TRUEVALUE , have a very good pullout drawer section for small parts. think that # 16  flange / shoulder bushing , left side picture is better  is what you want. also found that keeping any mounting points in lubrication will prevent rust / wear . as you take it apart , lay it down to retain what you have , to rebuild it . pete 

[peter lena 8,877]

bill, https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-1-Count-3-8-in-Bronze-Machine-Bushing/3024782?cm_mmc=shp-_-c-_-prd-_-hdw-_-google-_-lia-_-126-_-fasteners-_-3024782-_-0&placeholder=null&ds_rl=1286981&gclid=Cj0KCQiAvP6ABhCjARIsAH37rbTUZaaltZoPuUWRAq4aobHqUsCTlZk-kon7I9RNGNKE8hF7tZd22oYaAlo0EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds,  bronze machine bushing , pete

[Brockport Bill 1,748]

thanks to 953 Nut for heads up about the rust welding --- YUK ---  and to Pete for link to bushings -- didn't know Lowes and others so commonly carry those bushings -- did not realize they were universal ---  I have not taken off the lift arm or the hoodstand yet or removed battery ---- so i don't have full view of the inside "wall" of the hoodstand  where the bushing/ flange "was" originally...................but my speculation is the hole in the hoodstand for the shaft has enlarged from wear being absent the bushing/flange..........have you seen that before - is that likely??? -- and will the new bushing solve that issue if the hoodstand hole has gotten bigger -- or will i need a new hoodstand to eliminate the sloppy play where i install the new bushing? Thanks for your expertise - Bill

[Brockport Bill 1,748]

as a side note -- life is all about learning - I have routinely maintained my WH over its 31 yrs --- especially the obvious lubrication points -- I emphasize the word " obvious"  --- my learning continues and what i have learned as i go exploring different parts of the WH is there are  a number of locations.... not so obvious and not so accessible..... that woulda, coulda, shoulda been lubricating over the years -- simply from a preservation perspective and ability to do more serious maintenance -- what's the best term -- "lessons learned"  - oh well i guess that's what keeps the Liquid Wrench and Blaster profits up -- -haha

[chrisjb 8]

What timing....I have same 21-k806 and just gotten back to it this week after disassembling it and repainting in March 2020.

 

I think you are right that it is part of the bushing since it looks ferrous and a little too thick to be the flange on the hoodstand.  Hopefully the hole in the hoodstand has not been affected. 

 

My one time experience is that the fit should be tight without any wobble.  I had to sand the shaft to get it back in, the tolerance was that close.  As stated above, the hardest part will be removing the lift arm from the lift shaft.  As shown in the diagram, it's held in by a roll pin.  I had to drill it out, and did that was after I removed the hoodstand from the frame.

 

Here are a few pics so you can see the hoodstand flange and bushings.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2021 by chrisjb

[Brockport Bill 1,748]

ok -  now, thanks to everyone's help - and me better understanding the design and construction from the original plans.... PLUS the VERY HELPFUL photos from CHRISJB ------- i think we have this diagnosed - I looked in from the gear shift console perspective at the shaft "male/female" where shaft goes thru the hoodstand to the lift lever arm..... and I see the issue --- YUK !!!!! ( see my photo ) It does NOT appear to be problem of " bearing flange #16"  ..Looks like its the actual hoodstand rim seat that broke off  ---- in my photo you can see the top rim of the hoodstand rim from 10 o'clock to 2 o'clock still remains as the rim to the hoodstand wall  -- but the broken piece resting loosely on the shaft is the former rim seat of the hoodstand that would run from 2 o'clock around to 10 o'clock...... if you look at CHRISJB photos of the inside walls of the hoodstand, it's apparent the original design of the hoodstand walls and how they have a rim for the bearing flange # 16 to insert into........... So now what's my solution since a new bearing flange does not have the sufficient hoodstand rim to insert into?? New hoodstand? What else? Suggestions??? Thanks

[peter lena 8,877]

bill agree with you on the great pictures from chris, that frame sleeve ,that cracked and is floating on the lift cross shaft is the issue , you could either weld on a similar sleeve , or cut a thin piece of pipe to slide on and fill the gap. use the good side as your matching point. as you experiment with your ideas , you will come up with a solid smooth replacement. that open area , to me , is just what you want to correct the issue , dare I say it?  how about a 2 bolt flange bearing ?, terrifying to a purest , but it could work, pete

[peter lena 8,877]

BILL,  look at the available flange bearings , for ideas ,https://www.google.com/search?q=flange+bearings&sxsrf=ALeKk02J1QLze3MQxZ1IF9U7Uql4zfrZEA:1612186451000&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=_HxG5j5y2JldcM%2Cra-jtBFu5hL4ZM%2C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kTWrIWx6yaSuXqfqKuCrcE9VECAQA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_wOTF5sjuAhWLjlkKHSSOA2EQ_h0wAXoECD0QBA&biw=1024&bih=625  I have installed this type of new support in similar  problem areas , pete

[chrisjb 8]

Thanks for the pic comments.  I've been thinking about the issue as well, and been struggling a little due to some tolerance issues (see more pics below.)  I think I favor Pete's idea of getting a pipe welded in there, provided the metal is good and there is enough room. Could you fit a flange bearing in there? - see below  (I will be adding a 2 bolt flange bearing for the steering column per Pete's advice on other threads).  Perspective of these 2 are looking downward from the front of the hood support and tractor.

 

As you can see above, there isn't much space due to the cross member attachment lip.  So I'm thinking you couldn't bolt in a flange bearing and get it to sit flush without adding shims.  I took a sloppy measurement of the cross member thickness and I think it is 5/64.  You would also have to pay attention as to where the bolts would protrude on the other side.

 

Looking from front a little above the lift lever and the latch bracket.

 

Looking down into the latch bracket.  (the red thing is a light to shine into the latch bracket) The thickness of the bushing is approx 1/4" and I don't have the washer on it.  There looks to be a little room under the latch bracket, but keep in mind the latching rod needs some room.

And just a few random other measurements - shaft is 1" diameter,  the inside part of the bushing's od is 1 3/8, the outside part of the pushing od is 2".

 

Edited February 9, 2021 by chrisjb

[Handy Don 12,662]

On 2/7/2021 at 4:49 PM, Brockport Bill said:

So now what's my solution since a new bearing flange does not have the sufficient hoodstand rim to insert into?? New hoodstand? What else? Suggestions??? Thanks

 

Good teamwork to nail this down.  

There are several places where the stamped steel side members have been flanged to provide bearing support to through shafts. One I just finished working on is the drive idler pivot shaft. Mine was rattling  The clearances there were extremely tight. Turns out the shaft had worn some against both flanges. The flanges were intact but the IDs of the two sides differ-- 9/16 on the right (drive) side and ½ on the left. There is very thin brass bushing on the right but none on the left! Parts tractor donated its lightly worn shaft and it's bushing. Made use of the extra bushing to put it on the left--drilled out the ½ to 9/16th so it would go in without changing the overall length of the shaft so the E-clip would still go on (I'm hoping the loss of metal on that side won't be material).  Greased it up and its back with no rattle.

Since these are behind side panels on the newer tractors, they are easy to miss on the lubrication schedule. I've been using Red n'Tacky with a straw to get some grease in there and then silicon paddle to reach in and push it into the joint if I can't reach with a gloved finger. (Yeah, a bit like doing a proctology exam on a tractor.)

[Brockport Bill 1,748]

wow -  awesome insights - you guys are like a set of Wheel Horse Encyclopedias !!!!!!!! -- Plus, the photos are REALLY helpful --- and I loved Dons characterization of the "proctology exam" ------ I am capable of doing electrical work, plumbing, and carpentry, and moderately mechanical --- but not a welder, nor do I have equipment but fortunately I have wonderful friends -- one owns large excavating company - CATS, fleet of big trucks -- builds roads, sub-divisions, drainage, etc. - so he has big shop and repair guys - so i asked him to recommend a welder for "small repair job" -- he said maybe he could get one of his shop guys ( welder) to fix it ? So I am thinking his shop guys have had to be creative and solve many, many bigger challenges than my little WH --- so I will suggest your ideas and solutions and maybe i'll be lucky and this guy will be available -- ( snow plowing season, so they're busy )  of course the other challenge is, as you have observed, and that's getting the horizontal shaft separated from the lift arm ( #46 and # 19 ) which is likely Rust Welded???? Yuk  !!!! Bill

[peter lena 8,877]

BILL, glad you are really into the " what if  " stage , your friend with a welder totally changes it , that thin sleeve that cracked and broke off , could easily be replaced with a welded short piece of same I / D PIPE , as your side support area. your pictures and your opportunity to have a truck maintenance guy look at it , should do it , pete 

[Handy Don 12,662]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

BILL, glad you are really into the " what if  " stage , your friend with a welder totally changes it , that thin sleeve that cracked and broke off , could easily be replaced with a welded short piece of same I / D PIPE , as your side support area. your pictures and your opportunity to have a truck maintenance guy look at it , should do it , pete 

Agreed. Grinding the worn out flange flush to the side rail and welding on a piece of steel pipe or a steel bushing is the way to go if the skill and equipment are available. A wire brush, some primer, and black rustoleum to make it look nice, a good dose of grease and you are back in business.

[peter lena 8,877]

yes ,agreed , initially  just looking for something to replace the broken sleeve , short pipe mount welded in place with grease lubricant , black paint , better than new , pete   

[Brockport Bill 1,748]

ta da !!! -- let's hope the weld idea as you described is available as solution - Optionally, I have just located a used 312-8 hoodstand I can buy and simply replace the entire unit? of course I wonder maybe a repaired reinforced unit engineered the way you noted may be better long term than a used unit? 

[peter lena 8,877]

yes ,agreed , initially  just looking for something to replace the broken sleeve , short pipe mount welded in place with grease lubricant , black paint , better than new , pete   

[peter lena 8,877]

BILL, THINK THE QUALITY LEVEL OF YOUR CURRENT PIECE , MAKES IT A DEFINATE  CANDIATE FOR A WELD RESTORE.  AND ANOTHER  ADVANTAGE YOU HAVE IS THE GUY AT THE TRUCK REPAIR SHOP, SHOW HIM YOUR STUFF AND IDEA , AN HE WILL GET IT DONE, THINK YOURS IS VERY GOOD LOOKING , WORTH THE UPGRADE, BRING SOME PICTURES WITH YOUR IDEA , PETE

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

32 minutes ago, Brockport Bill said:

the weld idea

 

Even a couple flat washers with the correct ID brazed in place would work I suspect.