water heater questions

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

Putting a new water heater in and its going in a different spot, so I have to extend the gas line to the new location. Any tips for me? I will just use the old setup as a guide in how to run the new. I just live a 1/2 mile from Sutherlands so easy to get what I need. 

 

Should I use all new pipe or is reusing any of the old okay?

 

 

 

Thanks, Randy

[bc.gold 3,403]

Builders code for Canada requires the pipe be painted yellow.

https://fire-boulder.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Gas-Line-Pipe-Sizing-Chart.pdf

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by bcgold

[Pullstart 62,922]

Just an FYI, the corrugated flex pipe has a huge pressure drop across a length of tube.  Make sure to stay with black pipe.  It’ll get you the best results.  In my mind, old pipe (that’s inside and dry) is just as good as if not better than new stuff.  

[Pullstart 62,922]

Also, what is your plan for venting?  Make sure if there’s a chimney, you have enough rise compared to run.  If power vent, make sure to plan for condensation running back to the blower, or running out the wall.

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

12 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Also, what is your plan for venting?  Make sure if there’s a chimney, you have enough rise compared to run.  If power vent, make sure to plan for condensation running back to the blower, or running out the wall.

 

This has the power vent through pvc and have it running downhill the proper 1" in 4'. 

 

That is one reason we bought a new water heater. Our newer furnace is the high efficiency with pvc vent and wanted to get rid of the vent out of the roof. 

 

 

 

Randy

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

How about grounding the gas line? There was not a ground on the line that run to the water heater, but may be on the main gas line that goes to the furnace. 

 

 

 

Randy

[bc.gold 3,403]

34 minutes ago, RandyLittrell said:

How about grounding the gas line? There was not a ground on the line that run to the water heater, but may be on the main gas line that goes to the furnace. 

 

 

 

Randy

 

Dielectric Natural Gas and Petroleum Service Unions

 

CODE OF THE CITY OF GAS, KANSAS

 

 

 

 

Published under the authority of the

Governing Body of the City of Gas, Kansas

by Citycode Financial LLC, Wichita, Kansas

on February 13, 2016.

 

 

The official printed version of the code is available at Gas City Hall

228 N Taylor

PO Box 190

Gas, KS 66742-0190

 

 

The online version of the code is available at

 

gasks.citycode.net

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by bcgold

[wallfish 17,017]

There are many things the homeowner can do themselves and should do IMO. But doing their own gas lines probably are not one of them. It's not very often I'd ever suggest having someone else do anything but certain things present a huge unnecessary risk.  Have a pro do it and get it inspected. They will pressure test and properly check it for leaks and you can sleep at night. If you do it yourself be sure to check for leaks and re-check it. Simple things like water lines and such don't pose a life threatening situation like gas can.

 

[peter lena 8,647]

RANDY  , consider adding this to the bottom /  mount area of your new tank , https://www.gpconservation.com/product/water-heater-pan/?attribute_pa_diameter=28. did that years ago , on an electric tank , when that failed , and started to leak I barely noticed it , because the leak was hose draining into my sump pit ! well worth it on initial installation , catches  a hot water leak to your basement floor , attach a garden hose to it to a floor level drain , something I did , pete 

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

If you do decide to run the gas line yourself, as suggested, use black pipe.  That cheap chinese crap they sell at the box stores has TERRIBLE threads!  Seek out American made pipe and fittings.  ( www.supplyhouse.com )

 

A few notes about black pipe you should know:

 

The so-called 'sealants' should not be relied on to seal!  They are called that but they should only be considered to be a LUBRICANT to make it easier to achieve a properly TIGHT connection.

 

Black pipe threads are designed with several rows of 'imperfect' threads at the bottom of fittings and the end of pipes.  It is these mperfect threads that make the actual seal so they need to be tight enough to create that seal by mashing the metal together and eliminate the 'spiral leak path' that exists if the pipes are not tight enough.

 

Black pipe needs to be tightened VERY TIGHT!  Much tighter than one would think because after all, you are deforming steel to create a proper seal.

 

Do NOT use teflon tape!  It is NOT a sealant no matter what you've been told!  It is a lubricant!  If you do use it anyway, keep it at least four threads away from the end of the pipe, you don't want the slivers of tape to make it into your gas line.  And only use ONE WRAP if you must use it at all.  More is NOT better!  Teflon ' cold flows' and if you think you've got a joint tight enough when you come back a day later you will be able to tighten that joint more because the teflon has flowed and the joint has loosened.

 

Bottom lines:

 

Use QUALITY American made pipe and fittings.

Use only gas rated dopes.

Do NOT use Teflon tape.

Make the joints TIGHT to achieve a metal to metal seal of the imperfect threads.

 

I could go on and on, but will leave it at this for now.

BE SAFE!

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

1 hour ago, peter lena said:

RANDY  , consider adding this to the bottom /  mount area of your new tank , https://www.gpconservation.com/product/water-heater-pan/?attribute_pa_diameter=28. did that years ago , on an electric tank , when that failed , and started to leak I barely noticed it , because the leak was hose draining into my sump pit ! well worth it on initial installation , catches  a hot water leak to your basement floor , attach a garden hose to it to a floor level drain , something I did , pete 

 

I did add a pan to it, although my water heater is in an unfinished basement. There is a drain in the basement floor about 6 feet away as well. 

 

 I also made the brackets and used a strap kit to attach it to the wall as well. 

 

 

 

Thanks, Randy

[82Caddy 851]

Full disclosure, I do HVAC and plumbing for my day job. 
 

Another option is soft copper for running the gas line. It’s not cheap but we use that frequently when things just don’t line up right or it’s darn near impossible to get black iron pipe run to a new location. Also don’t use galvanized fittings or pipe, it can spark and then things go boom. 
 

This is one of those things that lots of homeowners can do and it’ll take them all day with 5 trips to the store for the right parts or you can call a professional that’ll be in and out in a few hours with a warranty (on equipment and labor - at least with my company) and you don’t have to worry about it. I’d call the pros and let them take care of it. 

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

38 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

If you do decide to run the gas line yourself, as suggested, use black pipe.  That cheap chinese crap they sell at the box stores has TERRIBLE threads!  Seek out American made pipe and fittings.  ( www.supplyhouse.com )

 

A few notes about black pipe you should know:

 

The so-called 'sealants' should not be relied on to seal!  They are called that but they should only be considered to be a LUBRICANT to make it easier to achieve a properly TIGHT connection.

 

Black pipe threads are designed with several rows of 'imperfect' threads at the bottom of fittings and the end of pipes.  It is these mperfect threads that make the actual seal so they need to be tight enough to create that seal by mashing the metal together and eliminate the 'spiral leak path' that exists if the pipes are not tight enough.

 

Black pipe needs to be tightened VERY TIGHT!  Much tighter than one would think because after all, you are deforming steel to create a proper seal.

 

Do NOT use teflon tape!  It is NOT a sealant no matter what you've been told!  It is a lubricant!  If you do use it anyway, keep it at least four threads away from the end of the pipe, you don't want the slivers of tape to make it into your gas line.  And only use ONE WRAP if you must use it at all.  More is NOT better!  Teflon ' cold flows' and if you think you've got a joint tight enough when you come back a day later you will be able to tighten that joint more because the teflon has flowed and the joint has loosened.

 

Bottom lines:

 

Use QUALITY American made pipe and fittings.

Use only gas rated dopes.

Do NOT use Teflon tape.

Make the joints TIGHT to achieve a metal to metal seal of the imperfect threads.

 

I could go on and on, but will leave it at this for now.

BE SAFE!

 

Thank you! I did notice the original pipe had a dope on it and while I do have a roll of teflon tape made for gas, I will pick up some pipe dope while I am getting the pipe. 

 

Other than fittings, I will have the place cut the thread the pipe the length I need, so hopefully it will be fine. 

 

I will check all the lines with soapy water spray when done as well. My Dad worked for Panhandle Eastern his whole life and they were a natural gas company, so he brought a sniffer home the last time we worked on the gas lines. Dad is gone now, so no more sniffer! 

 

I was trying my best to make sure everything is to code. 

 

Glad to know about tightening the joints, I tend to overtighten things anyway. 

 

 

 

Randy

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

9 minutes ago, 82Caddy said:

don’t use galvanized fittings or pipe

 

I have heard that the 'stink stuff' that is added to the gas reacts with zinc and causes it to 'powder' which of course is not a good thing. Nobody needs zinc/sulfur powder in their system!

 

 

Ever hear anything like that?

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Jeff-C175

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

14 minutes ago, 82Caddy said:

Full disclosure, I do HVAC and plumbing for my day job. 
 

Another option is soft copper for running the gas line. It’s not cheap but we use that frequently when things just don’t line up right or it’s darn near impossible to get black iron pipe run to a new location. Also don’t use galvanized fittings or pipe, it can spark and then things go boom. 
 

This is one of those things that lots of homeowners can do and it’ll take them all day with 5 trips to the store for the right parts or you can call a professional that’ll be in and out in a few hours with a warranty (on equipment and labor - at least with my company) and you don’t have to worry about it. I’d call the pros and let them take care of it. 

 

I had already decided if I got everything run and am nervous about it, I would just a pro and have them come double check. 

 

It's really just adding a couple of 90 deg fittings and moving everything over about 5 foot, so I don't think its a problem. 

 

I figure if I can blow the whole front end off a new wrecked car and rebuild it, this is not a problem. 

 

I posted here because no matter what a guy needs to fix, somebody here does it for a living and can give advise!! 

 

 

 

 

Randy

Edited January 31, 2021 by RandyLittrell

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

The other reason to replace the hot water heater, is that yesterday we finished running all new pex lines in the house. I even sweated in a new fitting where it comes in the house and it doesn't leak!! My first time to sweat a joint at 54 years old! 

 

So now, I have all new water lines and new water heater!! 

 

The old lines were copper, black pipe, galvenized pipe, and pvc! 100 year old houses sees lots of things done in that time period!! 

 

 

 

Randy

[Jeff-C175 7,202]

1 minute ago, RandyLittrell said:

new pex lines

 

I recently started using PEX and so far my experience has been very good.  I'm planning to replace the majority in my own home soon.

[82Caddy 851]

6 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I have heard that the 'stink stuff' that is added to the gas reacts with zinc and causes it to 'powder' which of course is not a good thing. Nobody needs zinc/sulfur powder in their system!

 

 

Ever hear anything like that?

 

 
That I haven’t heard of.  

 

8 minutes ago, RandyLittrell said:

 

I had already decided if I got everything run and am nervous about it, I would just a pro and have them come double check. 

 

It's really just adding a couple of 90 deg fittings and moving everything over about 5 foot, so I don't think its a problem. 

 

I figure if I can blow the whole front end off a new wrecked car and rebuild it, this is not a problem. 

 

I posted here because no matter what a guy needs to fix, somebody here does it for a living and can give advise!! 

 

 

 

 

Randy

If you think it’s tight enough, give it another crank and keep the pipe dope on the threads not inside the actual pipe. Otherwise, good luck seems like you’ve got it under control. 

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

2 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I recently started using PEX and so far my experience has been very good.  I'm planning to replace the majority in my own home soon.

 

So easy to work with! I bought all the tools you need and it's so nice to just cut in to add a new line or if you make a mistake. 

 

 

Randy

[rmaynard 15,519]

Just my two cents worth. For the gas connection, use whatever material is most convenient, black iron, copper tubing, or corrugated. My daughters house was run with all corrugated from the incoming manifold to every appliance, and some runs were quite long. Check for leaks and you are good to go. Yes, gas can be dangerous, but only if you have a leak.

 

Full disclosure, I'm not a plumber or gas fitter, but as a homeowner and handyman, I have done many "unauthorized" gas connections in my lifetime, both natural gas and propane. After watching a master plumber do several, I felt very comfortable seeing how he did it. 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by rmaynard

[squonk 41,164]

Do not use "close nipples" Do not use just  any pipe dope. Use Blue Monster or Rector Seal 5. Pretty hard to find USA made black iron fittings around here anyway. Buy good pipe wrenches (Ridgid).  I was supplied with a cheap pipe wrench (from Fastenal) at work. The guy I worked with threw it across the room! 

Edited January 31, 2021 by squonk

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

4 hours ago, squonk said:

Do not use "close nipples" Do not use just  any pipe dope. Use Blue Monster or Rector Seal 5. Pretty hard to find USA made black iron fittings around here anyway. Buy good pipe wrenches (Ridgid).  I was supplied with a cheap pipe wrench (from Fastenal) at work. The guy I worked with threw it across the room! 

 

My Son and I got it all plumbed and happy to say we have no leaks and nothing blew up!!! 

 

@squonk I used Harvey brand pipe dope and bought the same brand gas leak check in a little spray bottle. No close nipples and I am glad you guys told me to really tighten them well, I might not have since I have been known to bust things. 

 

My Dad had a thing for pipe wrenches so I have at least 20 pipe wrenches from about a 2 1/2 footer to little bitty, all rigid. I even have a rigid pipe chain vise

 

My pex line planning is not really what I wanted, I like things all neat and tidy, but all my pex was done at 2 different times so it is what it is. 

The good part is I did plan for the shower getting larger lines and being first in line. The better half already took a shower and I was able to flush the toilet and turn on the faucet without affecting the shower!! 

 

 

[squonk 41,164]

Any particular reason you hung the expansion tank horizontal? 

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

Just now, squonk said:

Any particular reason you hung the expansion tank horizontal? 

 

That was how it was illustrated in the manual and a couple of youtube videos I watched had it that way. I do need to go get some strapping yet to support it better. 

 

If I need to change it, I can. That is the great thing about pex. 

 

 

 

Randy

[squonk 41,164]

All the ones I have replaced have been vertical. Especially the ones you need a forklift to move.