Wood vs Coal Stoves

[JCM 9,130]

Interested in opinions, pros and cons of supplemental heat. Which one is more labor intensive, maintenance. Also chimneys, flues required for coal burning use, clay flue liners vs stainless steel liners. Any input from those burning coal ?  Favorite brands of either types and why.

[ebinmaine 67,309]

Good thread idea Jim. 

 

As you know we burn wood.

We live in a forest.  Materials are free. 

Tools, supplies, fuel etc is a cost. 

We love being outside and workin' hard. 

We do our best to steward our forest for future growth and health. 

Wood is a renewable resource, done correctly. 

 

 

Stove brand.

We have a Fisher Papa Bear made in the late 70s. 

It's a beast. 

It'll take a 32" stick if need be. 

3 other wood stoves here as well. One in use. 2 antiques that will be in use at some point. 

 

 

 

As a kid we burned coal in a MASSIVE old multi piece furnace that had a 3 foot cast iron donut at the top. 

 

Truck poured coal in the basement thru a window, down a chute, into a bin. 

 

Black coal dust was EVERYWHERE. 

 

I've NO desire to use a system like that again. 

 

Maybe a remote coal storage area... But well. We live in a forest.  

 

 

[CCW 1,292]

Used to burn lots of wood.  From a renewable resource point of view I would definitely go back to wood.  Interesting enough after a quick search and read it appears that wood is more of a pollutant than coal and has a greater climate change impact. 

 

@ebinmaine Was the coal you burned as a kid hard or soft?  I wonder if the hard coal, anthracite, is as dusty.

[bc.gold 3,403]

 

Wood is more labor intensive, storage has larger footprint, but the waste ash is not toxic you can use it as  fertilizer or even make soap from it.

 

How to Make Wood Ash Soap.

 

Why does EPA regulate coal ash?

Coal ash contains contaminants like mercury, cadmium and arsenic. Without proper management, these contaminants can pollute waterways, ground water, drinking water, and the air.

 

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

15 minutes ago, CCW said:

it appears that wood is more of a pollutant than coal and has a greater climate change impact. 

 

And you read this from where, please supply your source.

[ebinmaine 67,309]

14 minutes ago, CCW said:

 wood is more of a pollutant than coal and has a greater climate change impact. 

 

@ebinmaine Was the coal you burned as a kid hard or soft?  I wonder if the hard coal, anthracite, is as dusty.

I've read that as well...

There are countries that are trying to make wood stoves a thing of the past. 

 

 

We burned anthracite. 

It's just that when it's sliding down a 20 or 30 foot chute and into a big bin it gets chipped up alot. 

That stuff goes up in the air. Confined space. Nasty. 

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

Coal dust, explosions.

 

Pulverised coal is a significant dust explosion hazard, as large quantities are suspended in air for transfer from the mill to the power plant. Explosions have occurred when the flow drops and flames in the burning chamber pass back along the ductwork delivering fuel.

 

Sulfuric acid from coal emissions, pdf file.

 

Sulfuric acid emissions from combustion sources have traditionally been measured using EPA

[CCW 1,292]

So here are the two quick searches I did.  Certainly not exhaustive or definitive, but I was surprised.  These are speaking using biomass (wood for example) vs coal to produce electricity and not for heating a home.  I am not advocating the burning of coal.  Only pointing to something that surprised me when I did a quick search.

 

https://www.climateinteractive.org/media-coverage/new-york-times-op-ed-burning-wood-is-worse-than-coal-for-the-climate/

 

https://grist.org/climate-energy/whats-worse-than-burning-coal-burning-wood/

[bc.gold 3,403]

Interesting read, The Discovery of Fire

[C-85 681]

I have an aunt who has lung issues and her doctors have told her that it may be due to coal gas exposure from when she was little (she's in her 80s).   They had an inside coal bin, and her bedroom was above it.  I didn't know this until recently and had never heard of coal gas, maybe others have.

 

C-85

[953 nut 55,099]

       If AOC and the Squad have their way you are all going to jail!         You need to install massive solar panels and windmills to power your electric heaters.    

[lynnmor 7,302]

I have this furnace installed and connected to the duct work.  It will burn both wood and coal.  I have the optional forced draft connected to a thermostat up stairs and that helps a bit with keeping the temperature constant.  The attached photo isn't mine, I have a lot of wood blocking a good photo.  The ash pan is best emptied once a day, and wood needs added every 3 to 8 hours depending on the quality and temperature outdoors.  I believe this model has been discontinued because of regulations and the once great American company now imports from you-know-where.

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

26 minutes ago, C-85 said:

I have an aunt who has lung issues and her doctors have told her that it may be due to coal gas exposure from when she was little (she's in her 80s).   They had an inside coal bin, and her bedroom was above it.  I didn't know this until recently and had never heard of coal gas, maybe others have.

 

C-85

 

The gas would have been created from combustion inside the stove which was probably a leaker. Normally this gas is produced in kilns then it was piped into homes in the city and also found use in street lighting.

 

Coal gas

 

Coal gas is a flammable gaseous fuel made from coal and supplied to the user via a piped distribution system. It is produced when coal is heated strongly in the absence of air.

 

Gas lighting

Gas lighting is production of artificial light from combustion of a gaseous fuel, such as hydrogen, methane, carbon monoxide, propane, butane, acetylene, ethylene, coal gas (town gas) or natural gas.

 

Town gas - Energy Education.

Town gas or coal gas refers to a gaseous mixture, used as a fuel, that is released when bituminous coal is burned. Recently, some power plants have begun creating town gas not using coal, rather using heavy oil and naphtha as their feedstocks. Town gas was introduced as a fuel for lighting and cooking in the early 19th century.

 

 

 

Edited January 31, 2021 by bcgold

[ebinmaine 67,309]

32 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

       If AOC and the Squad have their way you are all going to jail!         You need to install massive solar panels and windmills to power your electric heaters.    

If she pays for it ALL. I'm in. 

[Handy Don 12,163]

6 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Truck poured coal in the basement thru a window, down a chute, into a bin.

Us too. Furnace had an automatic feed (anthracite coal, cheap, mined nearby in NE Pennsylvania) but my job was hauling out the buckets of ash to the curb for twice-weekly pickup.

[953 nut 55,099]

11 hours ago, Handy Don said:

my job was hauling out the buckets of ash to the curb

We used the ashes to build up low spots in the driveway, also carried them in the trunk of the car in winter to use on ice for traction.

[ebinmaine 67,309]

38 minutes ago, 953 nut said:

traction

Good use. 

We do it with the wood stove ashes. 

 

[Zeek 2,286]

19 hours ago, JCM said:

Interested in opinions, pros and cons of supplemental heat. Which one is more labor intensive, maintenance. Also chimneys, flues required for coal burning use, clay flue liners vs stainless steel liners. Any input from those burning coal ?  Favorite brands of either types and why.

I used to burn coal for a few years as supplemental heat. I used a coal stove with a 5 gallon hopper that was self-feeding. I refueled it with 5 gallon bucket from a bin in the garage that was on wheels. I rolled it outside when the coal truck delivered. It vented into a 6" clay-liner flue that ran parallel to the furnace flue in the chimney which I had installed when I built the house.

 

It was very clean burning and low flue temperature compared to wood. It was somewhat more difficult to light initially than wood, but once you got that down it was fine and you didn't do it that often. You could regulate the heat output easily by the feed rate. Coal generates less ash than wood.

 

My parents and my in-laws had a wood stoves. One in the living room and one in the basement. For both, cutting, processing and storing the wood was a major pain in butt, and neither do it anymore. The flues need cleaned more often because creosote is an issue which causes chimney fires if not kept after. Definitely more dirty in a living area.

 

If I wanted quick short term day fires, I'd go with wood just because it's easier and the ambiance is better is in the living area. If I was using it for a full time heat source, I'd use coal for the efficiency and cleanliness. That's my 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Zeek

[rjg854 11,351]

I have a coal boiler in the basement, it heats my 1200 sqft house and the 1400 sqft barn.  I use 4 ton of anthracite (pea) coal, that is stored in the basement bin, a year. It also has a domestic water coil in it for hot water.  I use a 5 gallon bucket of coal day when it's really calling for heat, and spread the ash, on the big hill of the driveway for traction.  It's self feeding, that's regulated by a timer and thermostats.  The timer keeps the bed of coals burning as long as the thermostats aren't calling for heat.  Keystoker is the brand made in PA.  In the 15+ years it's been in service, I've only changed the burner blower, and the chimney piping from the unit to the masonry chimney.  Coal is still reasonably priced compared to other options, and has about the highest BTU's of all the other types of fuels.

[ebinmaine 67,309]

@JCM Have you priced coal delivered to you?

I'm just curious to know what the price is compared to cordwood. 

[c-series don 8,668]

We burn wood with a Vermont Castings Defiant Encore. We can heat our 2000 square foot cape cod style home with it until it gets in the teens. Then I run the oil fired heat to help a little. I can get truck loads of wood for free. I then have to cut to length,split and stack it. This is why I say wood keeps you warm many times, when you cut it, when you split it, when you stack it, and finally when you burn it!! We usually burn around 3-4 cords a year. Our stove has been running nonstop since Christmas and we actually love it. My daughter and her husband bought a house last year and one of the first things she said was “Dad, we are going to need a wood stove in our house!” So as a house WARMING present my wife and I bought them a new Vermont Castings stove and they too love it! 

[lynnmor 7,302]

3 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Good use. 

We do it with the wood stove ashes. 

 

 

Wood ashes are OK, but coal cinders give excellent traction.  For many years, cinders were spread on highways and the cost was next to nothing from the coal burning power plants. A nearby power plant now has an enormous island in the Susquehanna River built with the ash, I am sure that is just great for water quality.  But now we know just how dangerous cinders are and the current crop of chemicals are just fine..  If you ever wondered why there are such huge body piles next to the highways after a bad winter, here is the reason:

 

Why is it dangerous? Depending on where the coal was mined, coal ash typically contains heavy metals including arsenic, lead, mercury, cadmium, chromium and selenium, as well as aluminum, antimony, barium, beryllium, boron, chlorine, cobalt, manganese, molybdenum, nickel, thallium, vanadium, and zinc. How dangerous is coal ash to humans? The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has found that living next to a coal ash disposal site can increase your risk of cancer or other diseases. If you live near an unlined wet ash pond (surface impoundment) and you get your drinking water from a well, you may have as much as a 1 in 50 chance of getting cancer from drinking arsenic-contaminated water. If eaten, drunk or inhaled, these toxicants can cause cancer and nervous system impacts such as cognitive deficits, developmental delays and behavioral problems. They can also cause heart damage, lung disease, respiratory distress, kidney disease, reproductive problems, gastrointestinal illness, birth defects, and impaired bone growth in children.

[bc.gold 3,403]

Arsenic from ground water, Arsenical Keratosis

 

[bc.gold 3,403]

When I'm out prospecting no longer use sparkling creek or river water to make morning coffee and cringe when a I that someone has used the surrounding rocks for a campfire to cook their dogs.

 

Water is a solvent which attracts minerals both good and bad.

 

The minerals in this assay would be expected to have leached into the local water system, the minerals are in PPM. I would not drink any water coming from this watershed.

 

Silver   (Ag)

Aluminum (Al2O3)

Barium (Ba)

Berylium (Be)

Calcium  (CaO)

Cadmium (Cd)

Cerium  (Ce)

Cobalt (Co)

Chromium (Cr)

Copper  (Cu)

Dysprosium  (Dy)

Erbium (Er)

Europium  (Eu)

Iron  (Fe2O3)

Gallium  (Ga)

Gadolinium  (Gd)

Hafnium  (Hf)

Holmium  (Ho)

Potassium  (K2O)

Lanthanum  (La)

Lithium  (Li)

Magnesium  (MgO)

Manganese  (MnO)

Molybdenum  (Mo)

Sodium  (Na2O)

Niobium  (Nb)

Neodymium  (Nd)

Nickel  (Ni)

Phosphorus  (P2O5)

Lead  (Pb)

Praseodymium  (Pr)

Sulfur  (S)

Scandium  (Sc)

Samarium  (Sm)

Tin  (Sn)

Strontium  (Sr)

Tantalum  (Ta)

Terbium  (Tb)

Thorium  (Th)

Titanium  (TiO2)

Uranium  (U, ICP)

Vanadium  (V)

Tungsten  (W)

Yttrium  (Y)

Ytterbium  (Yb)

Zinc  (Zn)

Zirconium  (Zr)

 

 

 

[Zeek 2,286]

Well @JCM, after these responses it looks like you are facing certain death with wood or coal. Go fuel oil 

Edited February 2, 2021 by Zeek