Need help with my raider 12

[Raposo 530]

My raider 12 was running horribly when I bought it. I started with the fuel system, replaced fuel in tank, all the fuel lines and filters. Still ran very poor. Then I noticed the previous owner hooked the throttle cable up directly to the carb throttle lever. So I fixed that and hooked it up and all associated govener linkage. Still ran rough. Pulled the existing walbro carb and cleaned it as best as I could and they didn’t do it either. So I put a brand new carb on it. So here is where I am at:

 

tractor will start, run for 1-2 mins with throttle fluctuating up and down, a lot of back fires out of the exhaust, a lot of bangs and pops, then it finally dies and won’t start back up again until it sits for a while. 
 

I’m thinking it has to be spark. When I started digging into this, I was expecting to find a set of points, low and behold, no points and looks like it has a electronic ignition? Was this retrofitted? Anyone have any ideas on some part numbers to start replacing the coil etc? The two wires coming from the plastic box you see below go to the ignition switch and under the blower cover. What do you guys think? I’m getting overly frustrated with this tractor. 

[pfrederi 17,741]

You have a breakerless igniton system.  They are usually a binary function ...they work well or they don't work at all

 

Still sound like a fuel issue.  There is no timing adjustment on a breakerless.  Replacement parts are very hard to find and pricey.  The carb looks like a Chinese knock off and while they work for some many do not.

Edited January 24, 2021 by pfrederi

[pfrederi 17,741]

You coil (triangular thing on the shroud) looks new as does the plug wire and plug.  Do you have a spark plug tester ($4 at Harbor freight)?  When it dies and won't restart check to see if you have spark.  The two wires, one goes to the trigger that is under the blower shroud the other is the kill wire that goes to the ignition switch.  (Never apply voltage to that wire!!)

[pfrederi 17,741]

You could double check the air gap between the trigger and the bump on the flywheel (You have to remove the engine shroud) Set the gap to .005-.010.  Highly unlikely this is you r issue but it about the only :adjustable part of the breakerless system.  Still think you have a carb issue...

[squonk 41,164]

Check fuel valve in tank. Could be clogged. fuel pump could also be weak. Remove line from carb and see if gas spurts out while cranking. Sounds like it's lean.

[Raposo 530]

I have fuel coming out of pump when cranking it over. Got it on the breakerless system. Sounds like that is not the issue. I guess I will get a more quality carb maybe from I save tractors? 

[pfrederi 17,741]

Just now, Raposo said:

I have fuel coming out of pump when cranking it over. Got it on the breakerless system. Sounds like that is not the issue. I guess I will get a more quality carb maybe from I save tractors? 

 

 

I would dig back into the walbro.  It can take several cleanings to get the job one.  Was it a fixed or adjustable main on the walbro?? 

 

I got one of the I save tracts carbs never could get it to run right.

[ebinmaine 67,695]

2 hours ago, Raposo said:

I have fuel coming out of pump when cranking it over. Got it on the breakerless system. Sounds like that is not the issue. I guess I will get a more quality carb maybe from I save tractors? 

Paul and Mike have you on the right track I think. 

 

I have to put another vote here for cleaning the old original quality carburetor. 

I'm one of the (un) lucky folks who have seen bad chinese cheap carbs. 

I'll never buy another one and I won't try to fix a tractor that has one either. 

 

 

I have had to clean a carb as much as 4 times to get it right. 

 

Best bet is to get a soak kit. 

 

Let it sit for a day. 

Clean it up and blow through it with brake cleaner in every possible direction and back again. 

 

Repeat. 

Repeat. 

 

Triple double check the area around the upper end of the throttle shaft. If it's worn you can add bushings to help it. 

 

Get good quality Kohler parts to do a good rebuild. 

I get mine from Lincoln at A to Z Tractor when I need them. 

 

 

[Raposo 530]

I’ll keep trying with the old carb, it’s well worn all fixed jets...anything else that could be messing up the spark? 
 

I will also pick up a spark tester from HF and see if I’m getting spark. 

Edited January 24, 2021 by Raposo

[WHNJ701 4,165]

Pull the head off and decarbon, not sure what plug your using but change to a ngk plug. Check your gas cap too make sure it's venting

As for the carb, you get what you pay for with china's finest.  They work best when you take them off and hit them with a baseball bat.  I would also watch that fuel line.  Looks like it get snagged on something

[Ed Kennell 38,249]

5 hours ago, pfrederi said:

You could double check the air gap between the trigger and the bump on the flywheel (You have to remove the engine shroud) Set the gap to .005-.010.  Highly unlikely this is you r issue but it about the only :adjustable part of the breakerless system.  Still think you have a carb issue...

Paul, could there be a flywheel key issue?    

[WHNJ701 4,165]

2 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Paul, could there be a flywheel key issue?    

Wouldn't hurt to replace it.

[Raposo 530]

Ok guys, I ripped apart and soaked the factory carb and put it all back together. Put a fresh champion plug in it and fired her up and she smoked and banged a little but one I adjusted the carb screws she was fine. Seems to run great! All the gears work great also. Only thing I had to do was hold the throttle out because it would work itself back to low throttle again. And when I throttles down it would complete shut off. Maybe a new throttle cable is in order? Thanks again guys!

[pfrederi 17,741]

1 hour ago, Ed Kennell said:

Paul, could there be a flywheel key issue?    

Possible but those are steel keys not like Techies...

 

But it seem like hes got it.  Carb issues...

[pfrederi 17,741]

50 minutes ago, Raposo said:

Ok guys, I ripped apart and soaked the factory carb and put it all back together. Put a fresh champion plug in it and fired her up and she smoked and banged a little but one I adjusted the carb screws she was fine. Seems to run great! All the gears work great also. Only thing I had to do was hold the throttle out because it would work itself back to low throttle again. And when I throttles down it would complete shut off. Maybe a new throttle cable is in order? Thanks again guys!

 

Great news.  (However I believe in ABC plugs...Anything But Champion)

 

Tighten up the pivot pin on your trottle

[Raposo 530]

3 hours ago, pfrederi said:

 

Great news.  (However I believe in ABC plugs...Anything But Champion)

 

Tighten up the pivot pin on your trottle

Assuming you pull the butterfly off the throttle pin and it slides out? Thinking I need to add some bushings/washers because it has a lot of slop in it.

[pfrederi 17,741]

14 minutes ago, Raposo said:

Assuming you pull the butterfly off the throttle pin and it slides out? Thinking I need to add some bushings/washers because it has a lot of slop in it.

Sorry i thought you were talking about the Throttle control I thought you had a lever if you have a pull out knob you will have to replace it or use clothes pins like I do

[Ed Kennell 38,249]

17 minutes ago, Raposo said:

Assuming you pull the butterfly off the throttle pin and it slides out? Thinking I need to add some bushings/washers because it has a lot of slop in it.

I believe Paul was recommending tightening the pivot in the throttle lever behind the dash plate to stop the rpm drift.    

But yes the carb throttle shaft will slide out after removing the throttle plate.   Just be sure to grind the burr off the end of the screws as they were peened to lock in place during assembly.

If you do not remove the burr, they will break off when you try to back them out.

[Ed Kennell 38,249]

1 minute ago, pfrederi said:

Sorry i thought you were talking about the Throttle control I thought you had a lever if you have a pull out knob you will have to replace it or use clothes pins like I do

 

 

 One pin for 1800 RPM  ,   two pins for 3600,   Or use the  mini vise grip for infinite control.

[ebinmaine 67,695]

7 hours ago, Raposo said:

Assuming you pull the butterfly off the throttle pin and it slides out? Thinking I need to add some bushings/washers because it has a lot of slop in it.

 

7 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

 Just be sure to grind the burr off the end of the screws

 

Removing the throttle butterfly is what I've done on the past half dozen carburetors or whatever.

I was rebuilding the carb from a 12 horse yesterday and discovered that those spacers can be installed easily enough without removing the throttle shaft if you have an appropriate driver.

 

I poked around in an old box of air fittings and found the silver piece that you see in the bag which will now live right with those spacers.

 

 

[Raposo 530]

I ordered a new throttle cable assembly. We will see if that helps my issue, if not, clothes pins it is!

[ebinmaine 67,695]

27 minutes ago, Raposo said:

I ordered a new throttle cable assembly. We will see if that helps my issue, if not, clothes pins it is!

One of the plus sides of using clothes pins is the mini multiple types of material and colors available. 

[Gregor 4,846]

There is always this.

Throttle cable

 

 

Edited January 26, 2021 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,846]

I ordered some of these. Might be kind of handy, if they work.

 

Rotary 10 Pack 14819 Universal Cable Wire Stop Z Bend

Edited January 26, 2021 by Gregor

[RJ Hamner 1,007]

Quick and simple Z bends in a cable are easy with a $14.00 tool from Amazon

Hanger 9 bender pliers

RC flyers use these a lot for the control wires

https://www.amazon.com/Hangar-9-HAN119-Z-Bender-Pliers/dp/B0006OBMJI/ref=sr_1_6?dchild=1&keywords=z+crimp+pliers&qid=1611629346&sr=8-6

 

I've had a set for several years now and they have seen a fair amout of use

Edited January 26, 2021 by RJ Hamner
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