formariz 11,987 #51 Posted February 16, 2021 All tightly fitted. 3 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
71_Bronco 1,072 #52 Posted February 17, 2021 I was wondering how you were going to address the missing wood in those "legs". Looking great! Are you going to dowel them? Or some kind of pin? Or just rely on glue / tight fit? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #53 Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, 71_Bronco said: I was wondering how you were going to address the missing wood in those "legs". Looking great! Are you going to dowel them? Or some kind of pin? Or just rely on glue / tight fit? With those "legs" on there is no missing wood. They are the wood that was missing.(first photo) They are going to be held on by "drawboring", a technique using a through pin going through the entire joint, meaning the two mortise cheeks and the tenon. Hole is bored slightly off on the tenon in the direction away from the shoulders . This way when pin is driven through it pulls tenon shoulders tightly against mortise. The way that I incorporate that into the design is that the pin is the center of the flowers in the ones I make.(third photo) Let me also explain why it is done this way. One could make the entire yoke of one single board which would include the parts that I added. However several problems arise from that. 1- The board for this particular style of yoke would have to be at least 24" wide. That is very hard to find. Some other style of yokes are actually almost 36"tall. 2-If it is made from one entire board , those parts on the bottom that fit around oxen's neck have short grain and would snap off right away. That is the reason for adding these pieces using grain perpendicular to grain of yoke and the big tenon used. Although typically they were not glued since that was not available, if one glues it then it becomes even stronger since it will be really one piece. If glue is successful joints will never break at the glue joint but rather they will break somewhere else. The glue joint will be actually much stronger than the wood itself. There are a "few" examples from the mid 1800s that were made in one piece. Very few however survived without at least one of those parts breaking off. I own an example like that as shown on second photo. Edited February 17, 2021 by formariz 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #54 Posted February 18, 2021 Starting to get to the final shape. 3 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #55 Posted February 20, 2021 She now has its identity. Final shape. It is now about a quarter of the way through. 1 6 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rjg854 11,377 #56 Posted February 20, 2021 It's really taking shape, now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,423 #57 Posted February 20, 2021 3 hours ago, formariz said: ... It is now about a quarter of the way through... Beautiful! What else is left to do? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #58 Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, tunahead72 said: Beautiful! What else is left to do? Thank you. Quite a bit left to do. Although it will not be as intricate as the last completed one on photo you get an idea of what is left. Carvings are identical on front and back. This one now is just a blank slate. Someone asked me one time how long it takes to do one .I never kept any record of the time it takes. If I started keeping time I probably would get discouraged and never finish them. Its not really a sprint but more like a marathon. Edited February 20, 2021 by formariz 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,137 #59 Posted February 20, 2021 (edited) Amazing work! Edited February 20, 2021 by squonk Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,137 #60 Posted February 20, 2021 On 2/16/2021 at 4:22 PM, formariz said: In case someone complains that this has nothing to do with wheel horses Awesome Cas! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,563 #61 Posted February 20, 2021 Agreed. Nicely done. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #62 Posted February 20, 2021 Ends are heavily tapered towards top and a bit towards bottom. A metal piece is shaped and mortised flush on each end. It is a reinforcement. Now metal pieces have to also be shaped with a matching taper as yoke. Typically they are steel , however I am partial to brass or bronze. 3 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #63 Posted February 20, 2021 On this I will use a power tool. My jigsaw with a metal blade to rough cut taper on metal . From here it will be all done with a file. 1 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tunahead72 2,423 #64 Posted February 20, 2021 1 hour ago, formariz said: On this I will use a power tool... We won't tell. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squonk 41,137 #65 Posted February 21, 2021 13 hours ago, tunahead72 said: We won't tell. First time I ever saw a jigsaw in a vise! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #66 Posted February 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, squonk said: First time I ever saw a jigsaw in a vise! Safest way to use it! Seldom seen useful jigsaw accessory. - Tools and Equipment - RedSquare Wheel Horse Forum Edited February 21, 2021 by formariz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #67 Posted February 22, 2021 Brass pieces are to be precisely shaped in all directions. They are to be set in flush with wood. One more to go. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #68 Posted February 22, 2021 Inlaid? Wow! You got some work ahead of you! Lots of end grain to contend with! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #69 Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, DennisThornton said: Inlaid? Wow! You got some work ahead of you! Lots of end grain to contend with! Lol. Yes that will be one of the fun parts. Shaping metal is also a tedious affair. Important also not to twist it. Slowly with lots of heat and trial. Edited February 22, 2021 by formariz 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #70 Posted February 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, formariz said: Lol. Yes that will be one of the fun parts. Shaping metal is also a tedious affair. Important also not to twist it. Slowly with lots of heat and trial. I would have thought all bent cold around different forms. I see signs of trial since it fits good but no signs of heat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #71 Posted February 22, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, DennisThornton said: I would have thought all bent cold around different forms. I see signs of trial since it fits good but no signs of heat? Those dark marks are burns. Have to be careful not to make deep ones. I leave center of thickness slightly rounded so as to hot bar only touch center since that will be removed in the inlaying process. I heat it and bend it off the piece by eye only placing on it briefly to try it.Cold bending is more difficult and has tendency to make “kinks” on brass. With heat it will bend into smooth curves easily like spaghetti. Also important not to damage face while applying pressure. Edited February 22, 2021 by formariz 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #72 Posted February 22, 2021 14 minutes ago, formariz said: Those dark marks are burns. Have to be careful not to make deep ones. I leave center of thickness slightly rounded so as to hot bar only touch center since that will be removed in the inlaying process. Cold bending is more difficult and has tendency to make “kinks” on brass. With heat it will bend into smooth curves easily like spaghetti. Also important not to damage face while applying pressure. So you formed the brass right on the "form"? With fairly low propane torch heat? I've bent a lot of iron and steel but not any brass like that. How hot do you think the brass gets? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #73 Posted February 22, 2021 8 minutes ago, DennisThornton said: So you formed the brass right on the "form"? With fairly low propane torch heat? I've bent a lot of iron and steel but not any brass like that. How hot do you think the brass gets? Right. The most accurate form is the actual piece. I use a MAP gas torch. I don’t know what the actual temperature the brass gets to , but sometimes depending where on the piece I need the bend I merely heat it up on the air to the point that it starts bending by itself just from the cantilevered weight. I can actually see it bend and am able to fully control it by just moving it around a bit. Now it’s a great time to do it since for cooling it I merely open the door and place it on the snow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #74 Posted February 22, 2021 4 minutes ago, formariz said: Right. The most accurate form is the actual piece. I use a MAP gas torch. I don’t know what the actual temperature the brass gets to , but sometimes depending where on the piece I need the bend I merely heat it up on the air to the point that it starts bending by itself just from the cantilevered weight. I can actually see it bend and am able to fully control it by just moving it around a bit. Now it’s a great time to do it since for cooling it I merely open the door and place it on the snow. Didn't know that brass got so agreeable with such low heat from a hand propane or MAP torch. Never needed to know I guess. I pictured a mandrel, lots of grunts and considerable checking and correcting! I like your way better... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
formariz 11,987 #75 Posted February 22, 2021 16 minutes ago, DennisThornton said: Didn't know that brass got so agreeable with such low heat from a hand propane or MAP torch. Never needed to know I guess. I pictured a mandrel, lots of grunts and considerable checking and correcting! I like your way better... Nothing like steel. Note that two major components of it are Copper and Lead. The higher the lead content the softer it is. The Rockwell hardness on it is usually 30 to 40 depending again on the lead content.As a matter of fact I sometimes shave the edges of brass bars up to 1/4” thick with a low angle block plane. It is my favorite metal to work with which many times I incorporate into my work. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
