12 Auto

[cschannuth 3,816]

I have the opportunity to purchase the tractor below. It’s a 12 hp auto that looks to me to be from the late 60s but there is no tag on the engine or the chassis for some reason. I think it might be a 68 charger 12 but I’m really not sure. Your expert advice would be much appreciated.  If I get it I would probably just clean it up and put some new decals on it but I’d like to get the right decals.Thanks in advance for your input. 

[ebinmaine 67,695]

S/G would usually bring to '67 or earlier. I understand there were some very early 68 Models with leftover S/Gs. 

 

It could be a 1277. 

[cschannuth 3,816]

3 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

S/G would usually bring to '67 or earlier. I understand there were some very early 68 Models with leftover S/Gs. 

 

It could be a 1277. 

I thought about that but I wasn’t sure about the fact that it had runningboards. I wasn’t sure where they switched from the stirrups to the boards. Of course, it could be a bit of a mix I guess. Thanks for the thoughts.

[Stepney 2,325]

Everything I see points to a early '68 model year Charger 12. That plastic cover over the center ahead of the seat seems to only show up on the early 68 models, I have one on my Electro. Most of them are sheet metal with a chrome decal. Engine could have been changed, but they could come that way. 1967 steering wheels were larger and 2 spokes, 68-70 all look like what you have. 1967 models don't have footboards. If there truly is no tag I'd say its safe to call it a early 68 Charger 12. Obviously been painted, and that rear fender tag looks like a 66 style .. I think?

Edited January 20, 2021 by Stepney

[cschannuth 3,816]

8 minutes ago, Stepney said:

Everything I see points to a early '68 model year Charger 12. That plastic cover over the center ahead of the seat seems to only show up on the early 68 models, I have one on my Electro. Most of them are sheet metal with a chrome decal. Engine could have been changed, but they could come that way. 1967 steering wheels were larger and 2 spokes, 68-70 all look like what you have. 1967 models don't have footboards. If there truly is no tag I'd say its safe to call it a early 68 Charger 12. Obviously been painted, and that rear fender tag looks like a 66 style .. I think?

Thanks. Would that make it a limited slip rear end also?

[ebinmaine 67,695]

Just now, cschannuth said:

Thanks. Would that make it a limited slip rear end also?

67 to 70 in the gear drives. 

 

Likely same for the Hydro?

 

18 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

runningboards

 

12 minutes ago, Stepney said:

1967 models don't have footboards

 

 

Yepp. Forgot about that!

 

 

[Roger R 448]

Everything looks like my '68 Charger 12, except the S/G.  Mine has the gear drive starter and internal alternator.

[Pullstart 62,922]

10 hours ago, Roger R said:

Everything looks like my '68 Charger 12, except the S/G.  Mine has the gear drive starter and internal alternator.

That’s an awesome looking machine!

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

I also think it looks like a 68 Charger 12, good find Craig!! 

 

 

 

Randy

[stevasaurus 22,767]

If this is a 1968 Charger, and it sure does look like one, then it should have the #5062 transaxle which is a 10 pinion limited slip.  

[ebinmaine 67,695]

6 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

If this is a 1968 Charger, and it sure does look like one, then it should have the #5062 transaxle which is a 10 pinion limited slip.  

Steve, when were the limited slip transmissions put in hydros? I know my 1970 has one but when did they start and stop?

[stevasaurus 22,767]

Eric, that question is one that I have been meaning to look into...and what the different transaxle numbers are and mean.  None of the spread sheets that I know of give this information.  When I need to know something like this, I go into "Manuals" and find the one for the specific horse in question...ie...1968 Charger.  I download the IPL that gives me the breakdown of what transaxle is in that horse.  I then see how many pinions are in the differential and what the part number is for that transaxle.  I should have kept a list as I did this.  It is going to take some time to do all the hydro's, but at least it can be done.

   In the manual transmissions, the year is 1967.  

[cschannuth 3,816]

If all goes as planned I’m picking this tractor up Saturday morning. I assume it’s like an automobile in that if I jack up the rear end and spin one tire and the other one spins in the same direction it’s limited slip. If they spin in different directions I’m assuming it will be an open differential.

[stevasaurus 22,767]

Ahhh Grasshopper, that is not necessarily true.  Actually, the speed at which you do that can make the difference.  Try turning the tire very slowly and see what happens, then do it faster and see.  If the wheels turn the same way, it will do it when turned slowly.  The limited slip will act like a regular trans when turning, or if the spring is weak.  The best way to tell, other then counting the bolts in the differential, is put the front end against a tree and put into gear.  If both tires are turning, it is a 10 pinion.  Another way to check...see if you have a 1" extension on the fill hole on the left side.  If one is there, it is a 10 pinion.  If not, it still could be.   

[ebinmaine 67,695]

12 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

If all goes as planned I’m picking this tractor up Saturday morning. I assume it’s like an automobile in that if I jack up the rear end and spin one tire and the other one spins in the same direction it’s limited slip. If they spin in different directions I’m assuming it will be an open differential.

If you jack up BOTH tires and spin one, the other should go the same direction. But don't let that fool you because if the spring is worn out the differential action won't work correctly and that's a very repairable thing.

 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,695]

2 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

see if you have a 1" extension on the fill hole on the left side.  If one is there, it is a 10 pinion.  If not, it still could be

Nothing like a definite maybe

 

[cschannuth 3,816]

59 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Nothing like a definite maybe

 

Not only am I not sure what tractor or what year it is but now I will potentially be wondering what rear end it has too, ha ha.

[ebinmaine 67,695]

1 hour ago, cschannuth said:

Not only am I not sure what tractor or what year it is but now I will potentially be wondering what rear end it has too, ha ha.

Nothing like a mystery rear end.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,767]

No matter how you look at it, it is a cute rear end.  

[cschannuth 3,816]

Well I’m headed home with it. It’s even more of a Frankenhorse than I thought but the engine and tranny are strong.  Once I’m home I’ll get some better pics for your comments as to what I have. 

Edited January 23, 2021 by cschannuth
Spelling

[cschannuth 3,816]

Here are some more pictures. I’m not familiar with the older tractors that have electric start and the generator starter so this might look totally fine but to me it looks like the wiring is quite a hodgepodge. I was surprised to see there’s a toggle switch instead of a key as well.

Please feel free to look at these pictures and comment as to what appears  to be right and what appears to be wrong. We did attach the tractor to my sons trailer hitch and eased it forward and both rear tires did spin so it is leading me to believe that it might be an early charger 12. 
 

The plastic plate in front of the seat over the transmission hump is plastic instead of metal but the gentleman I bought it from said he had that plate laying around so he installed it as it was not original to the tractor when he purchased it from the owner before him. It also has a homemade seat bracket and if you look really closely underneath the fender pan there are some spacers that raise everything about another inch so the seat sits very high. I hope to be able to remove the spacers and mount the seat to the fender pan like it should be. Right now it feels like you’re setting up very high and it doesn’t make for a comfortable seating position for me.  
 

 

Also if anybody’s interested in the really nice mower deck that came with this machine please let me know as I will be cleaning it up (it’s a mess) and putting it in the classifieds. It is very solid and moves freely and is very quiet.

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,695]

Certainly are some interesting PO mods to the wiring. Solenoid isn't original. Wouldn't have had one. 

Not a bad idea to leave it though. 

 

What's the starting process exactly?

 

Wiring out the rear pan is interesting too. 

 

And the bracket in top of the engine.... Attached to throttle?

 

The switch that says sprayer... What's it run?

 

Very cool find....

[cschannuth 3,816]

Here’s a video of it turning both tires on concrete which is leading me to think it might be a charger 12 instead of a 1277. This was at a little under half throttle and it put down two black marks pretty easily with just a little bit of forward motion control lever. As you can tell by my silly grin I was pretty excited about that, LOL. 

[cschannuth 3,816]

11 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

What's the starting process exactly?

on coldstart you just pull out to choke and give it a little bit of throttle and flip the toggle switch up till it starts and then flip it back down. I thought that was odd too.

11 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Wiring out the rear pan is interesting too. 

Two owners ago apparently he used that for a sprayer which explains the sprayer switch on the dash.

 

11 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

And the bracket in top of the engine.... Attached to throttle?

They used that for a wiring raceway for the headlights instead of going down under the tower inside the frame and back up for some reason. If I can figure out which tractor this actually is I’ll get the wiring diagrams and see if I can’t clean up a few things. I’m not sure if a charger 12 wiring is different than a 1277. That’s why I’d like to know what I have so I can get the right manuals downloaded.

Edited January 23, 2021 by cschannuth

[ebinmaine 67,695]

I'd agree with Early '68 Charger 12 as stated above. 

 

The foot pans are certainly not and have never been a 1277 item. 

 

Both 1277 and early Charger 12 could have had a Starter generator. 

 

I'd think the wiring diagram would be similar, if not identical.