1” 8 speed versus 4 speed

[Raposo 530]

Hey everyone, I am working on building a 657. It doesn’t currently have a rear end, however I have two options. I have either a 4 speed from a 606 and I have a 1” 8 speed from a 310-8. I would like to swap the 8 speed in. Is the 8 speed a stronger unit? I know the 1” 8 speeds are nothing great but this tractor won’t be seeing any work, just cruising around the yard and shows 

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

30 minutes ago, Raposo said:

Hey everyone, I am working on building a 657. It doesn’t currently have a rear end, however I have two options. I have either a 4 speed from a 606 and I have a 1” 8 speed from a 310-8. I would like to swap the 8 speed in. Is the 8 speed a stronger unit? I know the 1” 8 speeds are nothing great but this tractor won’t be seeing any work, just cruising around the yard and shows 

 

Check the parking brake on those, I would pick the one easiest to swap in if you didn't need the low range. 

 

 

Randy

[ebinmaine 67,627]

Unless you NEED the low range for a tiller you really should go with the 3 speed from a similar tractor. 

 

The brake is in a different location on the later models and linkage CAN be lined up but is a challenge. 

If it's really ONLY for cruising you'll never get it into low. 

 

BTW... Don't let those 1" axles fool you. It's no secret that the larger axles 8 pinion 8 speeds are known to be the strongest... But I've pulled some VERY heavy things with the smaller size axles too. 

They do just fine unless we're really working or worse yet, abusing them. 

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

8 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

BTW... Don't let those 1" axles fool you. It's no secret that the larger axles 8 pinion 8 speeds are known to be the strongest... But I've pulled some VERY heavy things with the smaller size axles too. 

They do just fine unless we're really working or worse yet, abusing them. 

 

I would be more concerned about the 4 pinion diff, (which can be found in many 1 1/8 axle transmission too.)¨*    *not true

They will do just fine, maybe if you go pulling with it, but that's a different story.

 

I wouldn't recommend that: 

 

 

Edited January 19, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[stevasaurus 22,764]

@Maxwell-8  Just so you know...there are no 4 pinion differentials in transmissions with 1 1/8" axles.  Every Wheel Horse transmission with 1" axles has a 4 pinion differential.  Every Wheel Horse transmission with 1 1/8" axles have either 8 or 10 pinion differentials...or bevel gear differentials.

 

Wheel Horse Transmissions with 1" axles can be considered 3 speed, 4 speed and 8 speed.

Wheel Horse Transmissions with 1 1/8" axles are 8 speed...except for the "Heavy Duty" 3 speeds which have the bevel gear differentials..

 

BTW...Wheel Horse Hydraulic transaxles work the same way.  

 

Edited::  It seems we have some exceptions to what I stated above, as noted below,  I apologize, I did not know about the newer models that have 1 1/8" axles with 4 pinions.  When in doubt, reference the IPL for your tractor.

 

@Raposo  if you are just going to ride around the yard, I would put the 3 speed into your horse.  It will bolt right in and the linkage is the same.  That 3 speed should be a WH #5053.  It is plenty of transmission for anything you would want to use it for.  Don't sell that 1" axle 8 speed transmission short,  It is just as strong as your 3 speed.  The main difference between those 2 transmissions...is where the brake drum mounts...on the mushroom gear for the 3 speed (hole close to the rear axle)...and on the cluster gear shaft for the 8 speed (next hole toward the front of the transmission).  That is where the linkage fabrication enters in.  Keep the 8 speed for a horse where you will need low range.  

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

7 minutes ago, stevasaurus said:

Every Wheel Horse transmission with 1 1/8" axles have either 8 or 10 pinion differentials

I thought my  312-8 which has 1 1/8 axles had a 4 pinion diff. But i am not gone argue with the in-house expert!

[71_Bronco 1,072]

I also vote the 3-speed for your application. As others have stated, the brake drum will be in a different spot on your 8-speed and will require some creative thinking to alter the linkages.

 

Also, I think you may have an issue if your 8-speed has the dipstick in the top of the case. Would need to be shortened if I recall correctly, or eliminated.

[Raposo 530]

On 1/19/2021 at 12:24 PM, Maxwell-8 said:

I thought my  312-8 which has 1 1/8 axles had a 4 pinion diff. But i am not gone argue with the in-house expert!

Steve has forgotten more about wheel horses than I know, BUT, I thought there was a few 1 1/8” axle 8 speeds that were 4 pinion. I know my 312-8 50th anniversary had a 4 pinion 8 speed 1 1/8” rear and I swapped it for a 8 pinion unit when it blew up. 

[Raposo 530]

I think I’m going to put the 4 speed in the 657 and I’m going to save the 8 speed for the 1055 

[Raposo 530]

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

6 hours ago, Raposo said:

Steve has forgotten more about wheel horses than I know, BUT, I thought there was a few 1 1/8” axle 8 speeds that were 4 pinion. I know my 312-8 50th anniversary had a 4 pinion 8 speed 1 1/8” rear and I swapped it for a 8 pinion unit when it blew up. 

I thought so too, like the Toro 312-8's 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,047]

 

 

[Greentored 3,214]

Just gonna add me .02 here- future reference for you guys to add to your heads-

That 654 trail bomb I had ran the original, worn out, 1"/4 pinion 3 speed. It had a hopped up 11hp OHV and was pulley swapped to run 28mph. That little trans was SINGING! 

I broke one hub, cut longer keyways and replaced with later hubs, beat the TAR out of it for a summer, sold it, and 3 owners later (yes, it went through 3 owners in 6 weeks- when asked why, it scared them and they sold it) it is still going.

Would have to think the 1" 4 pinion 3 speeds would be the 'weakest' of the bunch, and I TRIED to break it, to no avail.

 

[ebinmaine 67,627]

Other than extreme duty like a front end loader I don't think it's unreasonable to say pretty much ANY cast iron Horse transmission is going to be up to the task.

it certainly true that there are some transmissions known to be stronger than others.

 

But when you're comparing three or five levels of something like this and they are ALL OVER BUILT it's a bit of a moot point.

 

 

[stevasaurus 22,764]

@gwest_ca I know it is a mute point, but I did say Wheel Horse in every statement I made.  Honestly, I knew TORO did change some things for whatever reason, and to tell the truth...I have not really gotten involved in any horses that new.  

   Sorry, if I made any incorrect statements.  Like I said in another thread, I have been looking into making a spreadsheet that lists the transaxle and differential for all the models.  It would take downloading the IPL of every horse to do that.