Race car "steering quickner/quickener"?

[oilwell1415 563]

Yes, racecars use power steering.  The RPDE cars also use it.

[ebinmaine 67,438]

1 hour ago, oilwell1415 said:

You are correct that the cars and trucks these are used on are much larger, heavier, faster, etc.  Another thing they have in common is power steering.  Very little load is used on the steering shaft to turn them.  I still think they would be OK on a WH, but I think I would be tempted to get the larger model instead of the small one.

 

It would not be difficult to build your own, but finding gears for a reasonable price might be difficult.  It would cost quite a bit more than the racecar part.

 

I thought about doing that too. I hadn't really finished processing the thought but in my mind I was looking at the lower, horizontal, steering shaft. Mine's already been extended 1.5" by a PO in the past.

It has occurred to me that I could move it back even further because I'm not using a battery box or the gas tank being where it's supposed to be.

 

There's not a heck of a lot of room under the frame but it is there and I'd certainly be open to ideas about that...

[JoeM 7,873]

You just might be better off in your application to use some kind of 90 degree gear box in place of the fan tail gear arrangement. Not sure what size or torque value you need. Have to have some u joints on the steering shaft to lean her down a bit too.

Just a thought a larger steering wheel will give more leverage too! But sometimes girth is a issue with those.

Edited January 14, 2021 by JoeM

[Ed Kennell 38,146]

Another thought.    Will the quickenererer  be capable of being installed with rigid shaft couplings or will it require a support bearing on each side?

[oilwell1415 563]

 

34 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

 

I thought about doing that too. I hadn't really finished processing the thought but in my mind I was looking at the lower, horizontal, steering shaft. Mine's already been extended 1.5" by a PO in the past.

It has occurred to me that I could move it back even further because I'm not using a battery box or the gas tank being where it's supposed to be.

 

There's not a heck of a lot of room under the frame but it is there and I'd certainly be open to ideas about that...

 

The only problem with putting it on the lower shaft is that you will lose half of your steering movement at the wheels.  The limiting factor is the fan gear; it can only move so much before you run out of teeth.  Putting the gear reduction after it means the wheels will have turned have as far at that point.  If you were going to do that it would be easier to just shorten the steering arm at the end of the that same shaft or lengthen the arms on the spindles.

[oilwell1415 563]

29 minutes ago, JoeM said:

You just might be better off in your application to use some kind of 90 degree gear box in place of the fan tail gear arrangement. Not sure what size or torque value you need. Have to have some u joints on the steering shaft to lean her down a bit too.

Just a thought a larger steering wheel will give more leverage too! But sometimes girth is a issue with those.

 

I like this idea a lot.  And you can pick up a right angle gear box for just a little more than a quick steer.  Mount it solid to the frame with the output shaft in line with the lower steering shaft and the input located in the same place the top steering shaft goes.  Put a single U joint in it and call it good.  Just have to do some math and see what reduction you need.  You can get them with bevel gears, but they are usually direct drive and that would be worse than what you have now, or worm gears in different ratios.  You may also be able to find an articulating gear box that would eliminate the need for a U joint, but I suspect that would be pretty pricey.

[oilwell1415 563]

25 minutes ago, Ed Kennell said:

Another thought.    Will the quickenererer  be capable of being installed with rigid shaft couplings or will it require a support bearing on each side?

 

They just install inline with the shaft and rely on the shaft to keep them aligned.  They use an anti torque bar to prevent the housing from spinning.  Some mount in place of the steering column just below the steering wheel.

Edited January 14, 2021 by oilwell1415

[pacer 3,169]

Heres another totally different approach to assist steering....... EPAS - electronic power steering. Virtually all new cars now have this setup, and the the classic car, off road, etc people have jumped on it. 

The link is to the post that I ran across describing it, Its VERY long, to see my post re my adapting to my Mitsubishi FEL go to post 28.

 

I did successfully adapt an EPAS to a D180 (remember the D's have Ross steering and I dont think it would work on the fan type) with limited success using a Saturn EPAS which did not work well, but I learned a lot with that and decided to try it on the Mitsu, which turned out far better than I hoped! I used a '14 Hyundai unit. Most - all? - Japanese models after around '12 or '13 will have EPAS.

 

Mind you, it was a serious trial and error with many hours fiddling with the mounting.

 

https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/1848775-35-electric-power-steering-fail-safe-no-ebay-module-no-caster-issues-2.html

[oilwell1415 563]

ls1tech...there's a website I haven't thought about in a long time.

 

There have been a few Ford truck guys convert to the Volvo electric steering as well.

Edited January 14, 2021 by oilwell1415

[ebinmaine 67,438]

6 hours ago, Ed Kennell said:

quickenererer

Is this the triple reduction type?

[ebinmaine 67,438]

7 hours ago, JoeM said:

You just might be better off in your application to use some kind of 90 degree gear box in place of the fan tail gear arrangement. Not sure what size or torque value you need. Have to have some u joints on the steering shaft to lean her down a bit too.

Just a thought a larger steering wheel will give more leverage too! But sometimes girth is a issue with those.

I'll check into those 90° boxes. Thanks for that. 

 

As you know I'm not exactly "low-girth" built but it's ok because there's a 7" spacer between the frame and transmission.  

 

I do have a larger steering wheel. 16", 17" maybe??

 

Now on the spindle connections...

I hadn't thought about making a reduction there. @oilwell1415 Good thing you brought that up too. 

 

I must ponder......

[Lee1977 6,656]

How big is that 2 to 1 steering box. It has to be a planetary gear box because the shafts are lined up, it will also have splined shafts I can see the grove around the shaft to hold it in place.

[ebinmaine 67,438]

1 minute ago, Lee1977 said:

How big is that 2 to 1 steering box. It has to be a planetary gear box because the shafts are lined up, it will also have splined shafts I can see the grove around the shaft to hold it in place.

 

I don't know if oilwell could answer it any better than me but I think maybe 3 inches diameter and 6 or 7 long?

[oilwell1415 563]

2 hours ago, Lee1977 said:

How big is that 2 to 1 steering box. It has to be a planetary gear box because the shafts are lined up, it will also have splined shafts I can see the grove around the shaft to hold it in place.

 

The one I posted says it's 2.5x2.5 and 8" long.  If you look closely you can see that the shafts aren't exactly lined up.  I suspect it's an internal gear like this.  

[ebinmaine 67,438]

5 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

 

The one I posted says it's 2.5x2.5 and 8" long.  If you look closely you can see that the shafts aren't exactly lined up.  I suspect it's an internal gear like this.  

Excellent picture. Thank you.

[Lee1977 6,656]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Excellent picture. Thank you.

If it is like the one above you will need a fan gear turn down and rewelded to correct the steering on a Wheel Horse.

The steering column will also have to be modified.

With a normal auto gear box steering you just change the steering arm the opposite way from original. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Lee1977

[ebinmaine 67,438]

10 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

need a fan gear turn down and rewelded

How do you mean by that?

 

10 minutes ago, Lee1977 said:

The steering column will also have to be modified

This will be done anyway. 

Colossus is several inches taller than a C series. 

 

[Lee1977 6,656]

15 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

How do you mean by that?

 

This will be done anyway. 

Colossus is several inches taller than a C series. 

 

That gear box turns the opposite way.  Turn the steering wheel right and the steering shaft turns left. To correct this you have to change something in the rest of the steering.

[oilwell1415 563]

The input and output shafts turn the same direction.  No need to change anything.  If it was two spur gears that would be the case, but putting one gear inside the other fixes that problem.

[Skipper 1,788]

Would make Nascar a lot more interesting though, if some right turns also snug in there 

 

@ebinmaine where do you find it well under 100? I am fumbling with a similar project, and this might actually be the ticket home. Cheap skate I am, so of cause I want it as cheap as possible 

 

[ebinmaine 67,438]

9 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Cheap skate

Hehehe. 

Yeah.  Us here too. 

 

I'll PM you with a fleabay link in a bit. 

[oilwell1415 563]

45 minutes ago, Skipper said:

Would make Nascar a lot more interesting though, if some right turns also snug in there 

 

@ebinmaine where do you find it well under 100? I am fumbling with a similar project, and this might actually be the ticket home. Cheap skate I am, so of cause I want it as cheap as possible 

 

The direction of the turns are the least of the issues with NASCAR.  They’ve got plenty of other things they’re doing to screw up the sport.

 

You can get the unit I linked above (which I probably wasn’t supposed to do.  Oops.) for $98.  Don’t know if that qualifies as well under ) $100 or not, but they aren’t ridiculous.

[RandyLittrell 3,877]

2 hours ago, Skipper said:

Would make Nascar a lot more interesting though, if some right turns also snug in there 

 

@ebinmaine where do you find it well under 100? I am fumbling with a similar project, and this might actually be the ticket home. Cheap skate I am, so of cause I want it as cheap as possible 

 

 

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hre-5225?seid=srese1&gclid=CjwKCAiAuoqABhAsEiwAdSkVVMFt0kWFJBJvNbFZtaTG29cEJLT2ShzhTBPJ5vHI9MwT3jwmegB7_xoCEKMQAvD_BwE

 

This one is 1.5 to 1. 

 

 

Randy

Edited January 16, 2021 by RandyLittrell

[Goofey 89]

Will such a thing add play or slop or lag? Call it what you will 

[ebinmaine 67,438]

2 minutes ago, Goofey said:

Will such a thing add play or slop or lag? Call it what you will 

Valid question and I don't know the answer so I'll let someone else field that.

 

Logic tells me, certainly not.... because in a race application you're trying to REDUCE the amount of steering that you're actually doing. Not play catch the car the whole race.