Jeff-C175 7,202 #1 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) I noticed the bottom of the muffler 'flopping around' a little bit last time I used my C-175 and investigated this evening. It's probably been this way for some time but I simply didn't notice. This is the bolt near the bottom of the muffler that connects to the bracket that connects to the motor plate. That piece fits in there nice and snugly and would probably be a 5 minute job to weld her up, but SWMBO won't appropriate the funds for a welder at this time. I hope my bud at the service station at the corner can do this for me quick fast and only charge me $5 or so. I didn't notice until I downloaded the photo that there's another crack going out from the hole too (lower left in the pic). Better have him weld that up as well. Why did this crack like that is my question? It doesn't seem as if there's a lot of stress at that point. Just 40 years of vibration maybe? Anybody else ever have this happen? This muffler is in exceptional condition for 40 years old otherwise. Solid as a rock. Edited January 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnD 145 #2 Posted January 13, 2021 I was surprised to see my local rental shop has welders available. All you need is the touch! 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
8ntruck 7,022 #3 Posted January 13, 2021 Why did it crack? Looks like a fatigue failure to me - 40 years of vibration. The crack probably started in a rust pit. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #4 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, JohnD said: All you need is the touch! I can sweat pipes, solder a circuit board, I've played some with brazing with a gas welder, but never did any arc, mig, or tig work so I'm afraid that a rental won't have the desired results! Edited January 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
roadapples 6,983 #5 Posted January 13, 2021 You can clean the rust off a while to save the welder some time... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,922 #6 Posted January 13, 2021 Make sure to drill a 1/8” or so hole at the other end of the crack to prevent spreading... before welding it up! 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #7 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, roadapples said: clean the rust off I can of course easily grind the surface but I'm concerned that if I grind the edges that the part will fall inside and make positioning the bolt much more difficult. Right now the broken piece fits neatly back in place and stays there without any fixturing. So with that in mind, how much do I need to grind? Can I clean only the surface or do I need to clean the edges of the hole and the piece? Edited January 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #8 Posted January 13, 2021 35 minutes ago, pullstart said: Make sure to drill a 1/8” or so hole at the other end of the crack to prevent spreading... before welding it up! Good tip and I was going to do that. I wonder if it would be a good idea to place a flat washer on the bolt and weld that to the muffler to strengthen the connection? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oliver2-44 9,765 #9 Posted January 13, 2021 Use a wire brush on a grinder or drill and buff the weld areas clean, as free of surface rust as you can reasonable get them. If you have a Dremel or rotary top get a small wire brush and clean the inside of the hole where the bolt goes. Welding thin metal can be a challenge that doesn’t leave much room for pops and spits from dirty metal. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,695 #10 Posted January 13, 2021 How about brazing it? 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WVHillbilly520H 10,373 #11 Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, ebinmaine said: How about brazing it? That was my thoughts too, if done correctly will last a very long time. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #12 Posted January 13, 2021 Braze it. MAPP torch might work. MAPP/O2 would work for sure. Handy to have around for other repairs. Add an Oxy/Acet when you can. Then a welder. Fit it as best you can and drop a washer over the threads so you'd have more surface area. Think of brazing as more of a glue than a weld and your repair will last longer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #13 Posted January 13, 2021 3 hours ago, ebinmaine said: How about brazing it? I thought about that too. For all I know, this could have been this way for a very long time and I just never noticed it. Brazing may work. But I no longer have my gas setup so I would still have to take it to someone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #14 Posted January 13, 2021 15 minutes ago, DennisThornton said: Braze it. I see that my local Tractor Supply stocks the small Bernz-o-matic setup for a price I can afford (and SWMBO would probably 'allow'). I think I could give that a shot... with the extra washer on top I'm sure it would be strong enough. I'm trying to think of a way to mount the muffler to the bracket after the repair so that it's not 'rigid' in order to relieve stress at that point and be able to expand / contract without it breaking again. Maybe if I leave the nut just loose enough that it can slide and double nut it to hold it in place. I don't think eslock would work due to the heat melting the plastic in the nut. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #15 Posted January 13, 2021 Might look for another place to add a rigid support but consider this: You weren't permitted to get what you needed, only a little O2/MAPP torch. You played by the rules, it worked for awhile but it did fail and now you really need what you wanted in the first place. Maybe you should let this repair fail. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
305 380 #16 Posted January 13, 2021 New Jersey must be a lot different than Minnesota.... besides my own Mig and Tig welders , i can think of at least a dozen people in a 15 minute drive that have welders and who would be happy to weld it for a cup of coffee ask around and network , there has to be someone 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #17 Posted January 13, 2021 Wow... just wow... stopped at the station up at the corner told him what I needed... FIFTY BUCKS! holy 5h1t! that's NUTZ! this is a 10 minute job! Heading out to pick up a small MAPP/O2 setup this afternoon. Boss said OK to that. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #18 Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, 305 said: New Jersey must be a lot different than Minnesota Oh yeah, I'm SURE it is! and we don't talk funny like you guys do in Minnesowdah! ha ha! Seriously, cost of living here is outrageous. Everything is priced outta sight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,695 #19 Posted January 13, 2021 37 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said: talk funny If you haven't already heard the story let's go ahead and ask @pullstart what my dog's names are and how that came to be..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pullstart 62,922 #20 Posted January 13, 2021 Kahkis. Pretty nice pants for most people. They start the car for New Englanders. @ebinmaine’s dog is Meehah. I can only assume that anywhere but the NE, that translates to Mirror. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #21 Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said: Wow... just wow... stopped at the station up at the corner told him what I needed... FIFTY BUCKS! holy 5h1t! that's NUTZ! this is a 10 minute job! Heading out to pick up a small MAPP/O2 setup this afternoon. Boss said OK to that. I remember not having 2 nickels to rub together and I'm still pretty frugal. I have 2 of those little Mapp/O2 torches from yard sales and I hate the price of both the Mapp fuel and O2 canister so I only have them in case I can't get my other Oxy/Acet torches to a tiny job. I'd probably preheat with a propane torch and finish with a quick braze with the Mapp/O2 and save some of those fuels. Might even get another hand to hold the propane torch at the same time. I'd do it in two stages, first with a good flow across both pieces and then add the washer and flow all under and around it. That little Mapp/O2 gets hotter than propane but still doesn't put out a lot of BTUs. Use both if you can. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ebinmaine 67,695 #22 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, DennisThornton said: I'd do it in two stages, first with a good flow across both pieces and then add the washer and flow all under and around it. That little Mapp/O2 gets hotter than propane but still doesn't put out a lot of BTUs. Use both if you can That's a good idea. It's been many many moons since I've tried brazing and I was only messing around even then. It didn't take but a couple minutes to realize I was probably going to need more than one tank. Preheating with propane would be a great idea and save the Mapp. Edited January 13, 2021 by ebinmaine Correct way to smart phone Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DennisThornton 4,769 #23 Posted January 13, 2021 57 minutes ago, ebinmaine said: That's a good idea. It's been many many moons since I've tried braising and I was only messing around even then. It didn't take but a couple minutes to realize I was probably going to need more than one tank. Preheating with propane would be a great idea and save the Mapp. For sure and even more in this case. Most have a limited budget and I'd like to see this work for him. Imagine him running out before finishing with one set of tanks and not having another set and failing to get the job done. Let's burn up part of a propane tank and hopefully have some Mapp/O2 left for another task. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #24 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, DennisThornton said: Might even get another hand to hold the propane torch at the same time. EXACTLY what I did! The treasurer wasn't too happy about missing General Hospital so I had to wait for a while. I thought TS had the mapp/o2 in stock but they did not so instead I bought the TS8000 bernz o matic head. I realized right away that it still was not quite, but ALMOST up to the task. I had a TS4000 already that was used on a LOT (I mean a LOT!) of plumbing jobs and it had seen better days so I figured it was time to replace it anyway. I still get plumbing jobs from time to time (damn that PEX stuff though!) so a new one wasn't out of line. Not like it would be a single use tool for me! Anyhow, I preheated with the propane, called the treasurer out to hold the other torch while I brazed. She was skeert 5h1tl3ss! "You're gonna burn down the shop!" "No I'm not! shut up and hold the torch still!" ha ha ha It worked well enough that I was in fact able to get a good solid joint. Dropped the washer over afterward and brazed that on. It ain't pretty! Sorta 'blobby' and I'm not going to show any pics out of embarrassment at my skills... but I really can blame it on the torch not being hot enough. (It's a poor tech that blames his tools, right? ) Yes... the MAPP tank is almost empty! Soooo, bottom line is that I spent a little more than the guy at the station asked for but I have a new torch to use later! Win-win for me. And I STILL want a welder! Edited January 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff-C175 7,202 #25 Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, ebinmaine said: already heard the story I was at a Bluegrass festival somewhere up north one time... and a fellah obviously from up NE way was listening to our jam session and liked what he heard. He exclaimed " I'm Awed! " I looked at him and said " Funny, you look pretty normal to me!, not ODD at all!" . Edited January 13, 2021 by Jeff-C175 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
