Snake Oil?

[lynnmor 7,315]

Some of you know how I feel about additives in general, here is a video of a long term test.

[bc.gold 3,403]

4 hours ago, lynnmor said:

Some of you know how I feel about additives in general, here is a video of a long term test.

Appears the additives are just snake oil, a few of those engines ran worse for it.

[ebinmaine 67,711]

Thanks for posting this. 

For the most part I feel the same as you. 

We use ETHANOL FREE gas in all our small engines. Have for 2 or 3 years. We

We use NO starting fluid though occasionally I use a shot of carb clean to pop an engine to life. 

We use NO additives of any kind in our fuel. 

Trina and I are of the mindset that if it doesn't start on its own with proper gas it needs repair or maintenance. 

 

I have tried Seafoam as a quick fix mechanic in a can. Results were inconclusive. I've also tried Seafoam's Tune-up in a can. I must admit that did make a very impressive smoke show and ran better. Still doesn't change the fact that the engine and fuel system obviously needed work so I go back to my previous statement. 

 

 

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

I know restore can really restore compression for a couple of years. 

And had some good luck with an injector cleaner in an 20 year old diesel, i could feel the difference, and did expect differences. although it could be just me.

Apart from that additives are snake oil

some stabilizers make corrosion even worse.

56 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

We use ETHANOL FREE gas in all our small engines. Have for 2 or 3 years

Lucky you, We don't have any ethanol free gas in our country. E5 is the best we have, and I use that in everything.

My machines that don't need to work for more then a month are getting the carbs drained.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[ebinmaine 67,711]

58 minutes ago, Maxwell-8 said:

restore can really restore compression for a couple of years

I'd have to admit I've tried that in the past and was impressed. Like Project Farm I can't honestly say it wasn't the placebo effect. I had a Cavalier with a fair amount of miles on it. Seems to me it was better with the restore than without it. 

Again. 

No scientific method testing. 

 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

I have been watching those videos for the entire year. I wish there would have been an engine using non-ethanol gas.

[ebinmaine 67,711]

4 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I have been watching those videos for the entire year. I wish there would have been an engine using non-ethanol gas.

Agreed. 

We'll keep using non e gas until I can't get it or the price goes nuts. 

 

[Zeek 2,286]

Very interesting (although the guy doing the video is totally annoying)! I have been using ethanol free gas for the past 10 years in everything (boats/motorcycles/equipment) except vehicles because they go through it much quicker. I have been using Sta-Bil for years  After watching this, I'm going to stop wasting money on Sta-Bil. I'm thinking all that stuff is like supplements, they only work because they make your brain feel better, they don't actually do anything. At least not for me.  

 

Fortunately we can get ethanol free gas at all Wawa convenience stores around here for $2-3 G. currently.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Zeek

[Maxwell-8 4,277]

7 minutes ago, Zeek said:

  

Fortunately we can get ethanol free gas at all Wawa convenience stores around here for $2-3 G. currently.

 

I am lying, there is one place we can get ethanol free gas at the Stihl dealer but at 25$ a gallon no thanks

I do use it in my chainsaw ( running my MS880 gets expensive tho)

Edited January 3, 2021 by Maxwell-8

[wallfish 17,020]

9 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

We'll keep using non e gas until I can't get it or the price goes nuts

No ethanol free gas sold at pumps in MA. It's only $19.97 a gallon to buy Tru Fuel in a can. That's down right criminal!

[ebinmaine 67,711]

3 minutes ago, wallfish said:

No ethanol free gas sold at pumps in MA. It's only $19.97 a gallon to buy Tru Fuel in a can. That's down right criminal!

Agreed. And ridiculous. 

[WHNJ701 4,165]

Go go to your local airport and get av gas

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

I have never been a fan of Seafoam, if you can use it as an oil additive it can't be very beneficial to cleaning/dissolving fuel related problems, I prefer Berrymans B12 in my fuel (gas only) not as a stalbilizer but an actual cleaner, I do use non E 87 octane from 1 specific station about 3 miles away (and also their off-road high cetane diesel for my SCUTs), many videos on YouTube showing the carbon cleaning benefits of B12 vs Seafoam and others, again not as a stabilizer but as cleaner, I tried some of the 110 octane "race" gas I get for the Malibu in the 520s I didn't notice any real benefits of adding $9-10/gal fuel  over either non E 87 or E10 87 and just running them dry, just my experiences.

[rmaynard 15,519]

I have always thought that "snake oils" had no place in gasoline. If they worked, the fuel companies would formulate them into their mix. You can see that by adding ethanol, they have created a monster. The only thing good that gasoline companies can do is to remove stuff. I tried adding Sta-Bil to my Honda lawn mower at the end of mowing season back in 2014, and it turned everything in the bowl to gel.

 

I posted the following back in 2017 in reference to Seafoam. I still stand by it:

 

Reading the label doesn't tell you the ingredients, so here goes.

According to the MSDS sheet, Seafoam contains the following:

Pale Oil 60% (Pale oil is straight naphthenic mineral oil)
Naphtha 25% (Same as mineral spirits paint thinner, only evaporates faster)
IPA 15% Isopropanol (Isopropyl alcohol)

 

So in my humble opinion, I see nothing in those ingredients that would lead me to believe that adding this to my gas would have any positive effects, other than the isopropanol which is the sole ingredient in gas line anti-freeze. And if I wanted to remove water from my gas, I'd use 100% isopropanol instead of something that contains only 15%.

 

However, if you think it works for you, go for it.  

 

For the price of a gallon of Seafoam, I can buy about 20 gallon of ethanol-free gas.

 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by rmaynard

[BOB ELLISON 2,981]

Ive used star,sta-bil and seafoam for years. I don't know if they work or not to stabilize the fuel. But the seafood i know works to clean the fuel system after it sets with ethanol. I've seen first hand what ethanol can do to a carb. All I know is the gas that we get today is very bad for the small engine if it sits for long periods of time. So now I try to drain my engines of gas add seafoam  and hope for the best.

[cschannuth 3,816]

You guys are really scaring me. I’ve used Stabyl for years and my stuff always starts easily even after sitting for many months. On the flipside, my father-in-law also has a lot of small engines and he does not use Stabyl and his equipment almost never starts after sitting here for a few months. Now I don’t know what to do since I can’t get ethanol free gas anywhere near me.

 

I also have a couple of old trucks that only get run once or twice a year and I use it in them as well. They have very large tanks so I’m not sure what is the best thing to do because I can’t run them dry.  

[ebinmaine 67,711]

9 minutes ago, BOB ELLISON said:

now I try to drain my engines of gas *************  and hope for the best

IMHO that's the part that's working for you. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

They have very large tanks so I’m not sure what is the best thing to do because I can’t run them dry

Given the assumption they have a mechanical fuel pump I'm not sure how to do that. 

Electric pump...

My father has a 1999 Suburban that sees limited use. When he bought it he knew there was a leak down issue with the injectors. He had a trusted friend look at it. All 8 had bad seals, likely from sitting because it was a very low mileage vehicle. He was quoted over $1,000 to fix it. His friend told him to install a switch to cut the fuel pump instead of using the key to shut it off. 

He ran it that way for at least 7 or 8 years. Never had a problem with restart. He'd flip the switch on, cycle the key switch 2 or 3 times to build fuel pressure and off he'd go. 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

25 minutes ago, rmaynard said:

I have always thought that "snake oils" had no place in gasoline. If they worked, the fuel companies would formulate them into their mix. You can see that by adding ethanol, they have created a monster. The only thing good that gasoline companies can do is to remove stuff. I tried adding Sta-Bil to my Honda lawn mower at the end of mowing season back in 2014, and it turned everything in the bowl to gel.

 

I posted the following back in 2017 in reference to Seafoam. I still stand by it:

 

Reading the label doesn't tell you the ingredients, so here goes.

According to the MSDS sheet, Seafoam contains the following:

Pale Oil 60% (Pale oil is straight naphthenic mineral oil)
Naphtha 25% (Same as mineral spirits paint thinner, only evaporates faster)
IPA 15% Isopropanol (Isopropyl alcohol)

 

So in my humble opinion, I see nothing in those ingredients that would lead me to believe that adding this to my gas would have any positive effects, other than the isopropanol which is the sole ingredient in gas line anti-freeze. And if I wanted to remove water from my gas, I'd use 100% isopropanol instead of something that contains only 15%.

 

However, if you think it works for you, go for it.  

 

For the price of a gallon of Seafoam, I can buy about 20 gallon of ethanol-free gas.

 

 

I use additives when I'm desperate and don't have the time to fix something.  I cross my fingers, looks towards the North Star, mumble under my breath and pour in SeaFoam, Berryman's or whatever.  Sometimes it seems to get that project done.  Not sure what part of the ritual actually works but if it got the grass mowed or the snow plowed then it was worth it.  Long ago I got tired of paying for SeaFoam so I too looked up the MSDS and wondered what the real active ingredient was?  Sure didn't seem to be anything on that list!

[ebinmaine 67,711]

3 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

  Not sure what part of the ritual actually works

It's the mumbling. I find it's more effective when combined with colorful sentence enhancers. 

[lynnmor 7,315]

10 minutes ago, cschannuth said:

You guys are really scaring me. I’ve used Stabyl for years and my stuff always starts easily even after sitting for many months. On the flipside, my father-in-law also has a lot of small engines and he does not use Stabyl and his equipment almost never starts after sitting here for a few months. Now I don’t know what to do since I can’t get ethanol free gas anywhere near me.

 

I also have a couple of old trucks that only get run once or twice a year and I use it in them as well. They have very large tanks so I’m not sure what is the best thing to do because I can’t run them dry.  

I do use one additive and that is the Sta-Bil Storage product and use it like you described.  I bought a new Homelite chainsaw 45 years ago and the owners manual recommended it.  Most of us are aware of the varnish smell from old gasoline and the Sta-Bil will help with that.  Sta-Bil has a number of different products but only the Storage version may be useful.  I do use ethanol free fuel with Sta-Bil in my chainsaws, weed whackers and power blower because of intermittent use, but the expense and inconvenience precludes use in everything. 

 

The video didn't test the Storage version.  I'll have to go back and see if that one fuel was the ethanol free canned stuff.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 minute ago, lynnmor said:

I do use one additive and that is the Sta-Bil Storage product and use it like you described.  I bought a new Homelite chainsaw 45 years ago and the owners manual recommended it.  Most of us are aware of the varnish smell from old gasoline and the Sta-Bil will help with that.  Sta-Bil has a number of different products but only the Storage version may be useful.  I do use ethanol free fuel with Sta-Bil in my chainsaws, weed whackers and power blower because of intermittent use, but the expense and inconvenience precludes use in everything. 

 

The video didn't test the Storage version.  I'll have to go back and see if that one fuel was the ethanol free canned stuff.

2 stroke carbs REALLY don't like dirt or sludge and deserve all the help they can get with today's gasohol!  I try to follow my rule.  Ethanol free in all my gas cans!

[lynnmor 7,315]

1 minute ago, DennisThornton said:

2 stroke carbs REALLY don't like dirt or sludge and deserve all the help they can get with today's gasohol!  I try to follow my rule.  Ethanol free in all my gas cans!

 

Any carburetor can be compromised with dirt, it is more of a problem with carburetors with smaller passages and jets, since 2 stroke engines are usually small they tend to have more problems.

[tom2p 2,394]

been a while since I've snowmobiled - but  stabil (and/or 'dry gas' ) was almost a requirement - and gas was better back then 

 

guys that didn't use that stuff were often stranded when the temps dipped into the single digits 

 

guys that used the stuff rarely had a issue - unless they ran a lot in deep snow / powder and it made its way into the intake / carb 

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by tom2p

[rmaynard 15,519]

My dad once told me that the more explosive a liquid is, the better it will clean. That's why he cleaned everything gasoline instead of diesel fuel or kerosene. So I guess it stands to reason that as long as gasoline is moving through a carburetor, it's self-cleaning. 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

It's the mumbling. I find it's more effective when combined with colorful sentence enhancers. 

That's why I mumble "under my breath"...