877 Kohler 8hp rebuild recommendations?

[csvt99 173]

There is a gene in my family that prohibits one from throwing things out. My dad has it. I have it. I think my son has it. The rest of the family criticizes us. But you never know when you will need it, and it feels so good when you do! We are not bad enough hoarders, so I'm okay with it. That 877 sat in an old family chicken house for 20 years until I decided to rescue it. My dad got it started in less than 5 minutes! I then used it as my weekly lawn mower for years until I got the 314-8

[tom2p 2,394]

3 hours ago, richmondred01 said:

 He has to jack up his prices to stay afloat especially in PA who taxes you to breath anymore. 

 

Edited January 1, 2021 by tom2p

[tom2p 2,394]

1 minute ago, csvt99 said:

There is a gene in my family that prohibits one from throwing things out. My dad has it. I have it. I think my son has it. The rest of the family criticizes us. But you never know when you will need it, and it feels so good when you do! We are not bad enough hoarders, so I'm okay with it. That 877 sat in an old family chicken house for 20 years until I decided to rescue it. My dad got it started in less than 5 minutes! I then used it as my weekly lawn mower for years until I got the 314-8

I used a 704 for over 20 years before I parked it mid/late 90's .. (and still sits in the same spot in the garage - buried behind too much stuff)

it will never be sold - until / unless I am gone 

 

and even then I warned my kids if they sell it after I'm gone I might come out of the grave to buy it 

 

[richmondred01 2,237]

3 minutes ago, tom2p said:

 

I fled PA 30 years ago to VA.

now the they have taken over here. 
 

[ebinmaine 67,657]

30 minutes ago, tom2p said:

that 877 looks like a keeper - repair / maintain it properly and it will be around for generations 

 

the kids ...  hmmm ... maybe keep them also ... ? ... 

Well they're already there. Might as well keep throwing food to 'em & let 'em stay around awhile. 

[Gregor 4,846]

2 hours ago, csvt99 said:

Step one was getting it started and into my basement garage, which happened today. I just love how this little thing drives. Steers great, maybe because of the smaller tires. Drives so much nicer than the 14-8. Kind of sad to see the demise of gas engines, since that is what we know, but there are a lot of benefits to electric. Who knows, maybe my son will convert it to electric some day. As stated earlier I just want to get this things running decent with less smoke so I can teach my kids how to back up a trailer. Here are a few pics to get things started. 

 

 

I would NOT bother rebuilding such an old engine. It's past it's prime. Replace it with something newer. As a favor, you can crate it up, send it to me, and I will see to it, that it is properly disposed of. Am I a nice guy or what?

[ebinmaine 67,657]

2 minutes ago, Gregor said:

 

 

I would NOT bother rebuilding such an old engine. It's past it's prime. Replace it with something newer. As a favor, you can crate it up, send it to me, and I will see to it, that it is properly disposed of. Am I a nice guy or what?

 

@csvt99

Don't ya love how helpful our folks are?

 

[csvt99 173]

It's perfect. No easier way to make me want to keep it, than for someone else to think it's worth something!

[csvt99 173]

I couldn't wait. Popped the head off this is what I found. This is the first time I've ever had an engine apart so I don't know what I'm looking at other than a lot of carbon, piston and valves? How does she look?

[ebinmaine 67,657]

10 minutes ago, csvt99 said:

carbon, piston and valves

Agreed

[oliver2-44 9,761]

3 hours ago, csvt99 said:

How does she look?

 

In the above picture notice the top of the piston is clean in the upper right corner. I believe that is an indication Of ring blow by. Which could indicate the cylinder is out of round. @richmondred01  any thoughts on this 

[richmondred01 2,237]

8 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

In the above picture notice the top of the piston is clean in the upper right corner. I believe that is an indication Of ring blow by. Which could indicate the cylinder is out of round. @richmondred01  any thoughts on this 

To do it correctly yes, a cylinder bore needs to be utilized to determine how far the cylinder is out of spec.

Then of course the crank journal needs to be measured with a mic to determine its spec and to determine if it needs to be polished or ground. Be careful who you use as a machinist. 
Additionally, my supplier and most I’ve seen, can only get .010 under rods for the k161 and k181 and I only have 5 or so .020 NOS ones left. (They are used only for special customers) 

Happy New Year and all the best. 

[csvt99 173]

So it sounds like the best thing to do is take the motor to be inspected by someone who knows what they are doing. We do have several reputable machine shops in the area plus a multigenerational original wheel horse dealer that still works on them. 

 

Any tips for cleaning the carbon off the head, piston, and valves? Can I use carb cleaner?

[ebinmaine 67,657]

7 minutes ago, csvt99 said:

Any tips for cleaning the carbon off the head, piston, and valves? Can I use carb cleaner?

I've not been into a Kohler engine further than changing a head gasket. The times I've done that I put it to TDC and use a wire brush. 

There are chemicals that can help break down the carbon some. 

[richmondred01 2,237]

Razor blade on 45% angle and brake cleaner at TDC.

However, it’s kinda a moot point because it needs to come out anyway and replaced after it’s bored. Even if you get lucky it will still need to come out to be honed and the crank polished/ground.

Also, something that is over looked is valve guides. I typically replace them too during the process. 
Additionally valves in the k161 and k181 aren’t adjustable. After being resurfaced or replaced the stems need to be ground to fit. 
(valve stem grinder required a bench grinder can’t cut them 100% flat)

Edited January 2, 2021 by richmondred01

[richmondred01 2,237]

Also beware of you tube videos. Many are posted but everyone that I’ve seen are missing some important aspects and certain nuances of these engines.

 

[csvt99 173]

Hmm. Since my goal is a running tractor with hydro, and not a complete restoration at this time, I'm wondering if I would be better off trying to pick up another motor or tractor even that is running fine and not smoking? 🤔

[ebinmaine 67,657]

6 minutes ago, csvt99 said:

another ****** tractor

Seems a good option to me would be to go find another Hydro tractor that runs and drives well and keep that 877 as a side project you can work on at your leisure.

 

But then again, look at me spending your money.

[adsm08 2,079]

7 minutes ago, csvt99 said:

Hmm. Since my goal is a running tractor with hydro, and not a complete restoration at this time, I'm wondering if I would be better off trying to pick up another motor or tractor even that is running fine and not smoking? 🤔

 

Finding a whole engine would be the easiest way to go.

[adsm08 2,079]

On 1/1/2021 at 12:58 PM, tom2p said:

I used a 704 for over 20 years before I parked it mid/late 90's .. (and still sits in the same spot in the garage - buried behind too much stuff)

it will never be sold - until / unless I am gone 

 

and even then I warned my kids if they sell it after I'm gone I might come out of the grave to buy it 

 

 

Dibs.

[adsm08 2,079]

On 1/1/2021 at 12:52 PM, csvt99 said:

There is a gene in my family that prohibits one from throwing things out. My dad has it. I have it. I think my son has it. The rest of the family criticizes us. But you never know when you will need it, and it feels so good when you do! We are not bad enough hoarders, so I'm okay with it. That 877 sat in an old family chicken house for 20 years until I decided to rescue it. My dad got it started in less than 5 minutes! I then used it as my weekly lawn mower for years until I got the 314-8

 

I did that with my 855. Bought it from a guy after it sat in his barn for 10 years. Cleaned the fuel tank because it was all nasty, had to replace the sediment bowl because it was corroded solid. Did that, put a new battery and fresh fuel in it, and it went vroom.

[csvt99 173]

I talked to the dealer today. He told me he could do a complete rebuild for $900-1000. However he recommended installing oversized rings that are 3/1000s over standard size. He said he could do this, clean up the motor etc. (can't remember exactly what he said) for $200-300 and that should take care of 80-90% of the smoking. However....he cannot find the rings anymore without buying the whole piston ring set for $184, which would up the cost to closer to $500. He too recommend considering finding another motor. Do you think anyone on this website would have the oversized rings?

[richmondred01 2,237]

Tell us what he’s going to do?

80-90% what’s that? 
if he’s only going to just put rings in that then yes 80-90% for a few hours then back to smoking if it needed to be bored. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,657]

Ok 2 things. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, csvt99 said:

However....he cannot find the rings anymore without buying the whole piston ring set for $184

 

You should be able to find a ring set for WELL less than half that. Maybe 50 to 70 bucks. 

@richmondred01. Any thoughts?

 

13 minutes ago, csvt99 said:

recommend considering finding another motor

 

No engine builder is telling me that for something I'm restoring. 

Edited January 6, 2021 by ebinmaine

[richmondred01 2,237]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

Ok 2 things. 

 

 

 

You should be able to find a ring set for WELL less than half that. Maybe 50 to 70 bucks. 

@richmondred01. Any thoughts?

 

 

No engine builder is telling me that for something I'm restoring. 

after market or Kohler? 
.030 over?