Hydraulic hose and fitting sizes?

[ebinmaine 69,842]

Is there an advantage to using 3/8 vs 1/4 hoses?

I'll be getting some at a shop here in Gorham. 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by ebinmaine

[8ntruck 7,269]

A 3/8 hose will flow more volume with less pressure drop.  If you have room for the larger hoses and the required larger bend radius it has, your pump won't have to work as hard.

[daveoman1966 3,772]

Older Hydros (pre 74 or 75) had Hyd hose with ORB-6 ends. (ORB = O-Ring Boss).  After '75, the hose fittings were ORB-5.     ((ORB-6 is for 3/8" ID hose---ORB-5 is for 5/16" hose))

 

A few years ago, I was able to find ADAPTER fittings for a project I had....still have 4 of them NEW. $7 each. + 3 ship ( for 1 or all 4).

 

Here is a pic or two.  These adapters are :FEMALE ORB-6 to MALE is ORB-5. (3/4 Hex...1-1/8" Long)

 

    

 

    

[ebinmaine 69,842]

6 hours ago, daveoman1966 said:

Older Hydros (pre 74 or 75) had Hyd hose with ORB-6 ends. (ORB = O-Ring Boss

Excellent. Thanks Dave!

 

 

[ebinmaine 69,842]

7 hours ago, 8ntruck said:

A 3/8 hose will flow more volume with less pressure drop.  If you have room for the larger hoses and the required larger bend radius it has, your pump won't have to work as hard.

 

After long consideration over aeons epochs and ages I've concluded that the choice location of the Charger hydro vertical control lever based on inclination and interest of The 🐻 Bear is ...........

The left side of my hip, on the fender. 

 

I'll be running the hoses over the back of the seat pan and into their appropriate fluid coupling locations so as to keep the ability to lift the seat to check transmission fluid. 

 

A big part of wanting larger hoses is because the valve I'm using has large ports and I'm hoping to limit the number of adapters needed at the hose ends. 

[ebinmaine 69,842]

Just wanted to edit this topic a little bit. Thank you to both of you above for supplying the information. I found a hydraulic repair facility about 30 minutes from me that I drive within a quarter mile of on the way to and from work everyday and I didn't know they were there. Called the fella on the phone and he seems really good to talk to and more than willing to help. Pricing is excellent as well. I'll keep you posted.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

About 7 years ago I replaced the hoses on my C175 with stainless braided lines and used the AN style fittjngs and adapters to attach them.  Even looking at the hoses and fittings I can't for the life of me remember the details of what I did or what adapters I used but I now need to rebuild the lift valve due to some leakage.

 

I'm going to look for receipts and such to try to help me remember but I'd also like to re-educate myself.

 

I think I can simply unscrew the AN fittings from the adapters but I'm not certain and don't want to experiment without some confirmation that I'll be able to reinstall them without leaking.

 

Anybody here have experience with AN fittings?

 

I bought the rebuild kits from "Kitchens and More" and I believe the owner of that business was a member here.  Does anyone remember him? Still a member perhaps?

 

ORB-5 seems to be a very odd size, most vendors list -4 or -6.  Why did WH use an odd size like that?

 

As I recall when I did this I removed the !ift  valve, attached the adapters and hoses that i made up and then routed the 4 hoses through the big hole and attached the ends to the cylinder  and transmission.  I'm hoping I won't have to break the connections at the cylinder and tranny and just leave the hoses in place and remove the lift valve  but it's awfully tight in there...

 

Any hydraulic experts here that can school me a bit? (Even non-expert input welcome!)

 

[ebinmaine 69,842]

9 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

Any hydraulic experts here that can school me a bit? (Even non-expert input welcome!)

I can't offer any expert help but if you don't get your answer I believe the folks I'm getting my own hoses from could assist you. 

[peter lena 9,002]

EBINMAINE , MERRY CHRISTMAS !  TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT HYDRAULIC SHOP,  while you are there , make sure you give them all the details on your hose / fitting set up , and realize that they probably have  any fittings that you would need . had a couple of hoses made up at a local truck maint shop,  had dozens of hydraulic bins for any possible set up you could want . pete

[ebinmaine 69,842]

Just now, peter lena said:

EBINMAINE , MERRY CHRISTMAS !  TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT HYDRAULIC SHOP,  while you are there , make sure you give them all the details on your hose / fitting set up

 

Thanks Pete and

GLEÐILEG JÓL !!

 

I'm actually going to bring the valve, hose ends and a list of lengths needed. 

Likely drop off Tuesday and pick up a day or 2 later. 

 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

I found tne thread from 2013 where I documented what I did and refreshed my memory.

 

 

So now I know what I did.

 

Interesting that my machine uses both -5 AND -6,  -5 from the lift valve to the cylinder and -6 from lift valve to tranny.

 

I'm going to try getting the valve out without breaking connections at the other ends but I suspect I'll be pulling the whole mess.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Jeff-C175

[pfrederi 18,206]

SAE #5 used to be widely used but as time went by it fell out of favor even WH switched to SAE#6  with C series hydros.   SAE #5 fittings as used on Chargers and electros are very hard to find.  Lowell makes hoses but the fittings he has to use are bulkier than the originals and sometimes there are clearance issues.

[ebinmaine 69,842]

8 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

Lowell makes hoses but the fittings he has to use are bulkier than the originals and sometimes there are clearance issues

I'll see what my local place has/does an keep this thread updated. 

[ebinmaine 69,842]

9 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

found tne thread from 2013

Hey thanks for posting that here too. 

Always good to have a cross reference of information. 

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

I'll post a few pics here later.  That braided speed flex hose is tough stuff.  Overkill, yes!  I've always been fond of overkill!

[ebinmaine 69,842]

9 minutes ago, Jeff-C175 said:

I've always been fond of overkill

Overkill is in the eyes of the beholder

[pfrederi 18,206]

These are not super high pressure systems.  WH used fabric reinforced SAE 100 R3 hose.  Lots of what you get now is heavier stuff  R2 that is hard to bend and puts additional side stress on the swivel fittings and is overkill pressure wise.

[Handy Don 13,129]

8 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Overkill is in the eyes of the beholder

As long as the head of finance isn't "looking" 

[rmaynard 15,819]

1 hour ago, Jeff-C175 said:

 

I bought the rebuild kits from "Kitchens and More" and I believe the owner of that business was a member here.  Does anyone remember him? Still a member perhaps?

 

 

His name is Eldon Gladfelter 

ID is @kj4kicks

His website is: 

http://www.classickitchensandmore.com

[ebinmaine 69,842]

5 minutes ago, Handy Don said:

As long as the head of finance isn't "looking" 

Valid point. Good thing I'm my own Head of Finance. 

[ebinmaine 69,842]

8 minutes ago, pfrederi said:

These are not super high pressure systems.  WH used fabric reinforced SAE 100 R3 hose.  Lots of what you get now is heavier stuff  R2 that is hard to bend and puts additional side stress on the swivel fittings and is overkill pressure wise.

Any thoughts what the actual pressure is?

If I can go lighter duty to increase flexibility I will. 

[JohnD 145]

The C-175 diagrams for an Eaton 1100 show 700 psi after the regulator. 

 

https://www.partstree.com/models/01-17ke03-c-175-toro-garden-tractor-1983/hydraulic-system-13/

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by JohnD
added hydro type

[pfrederi 18,206]

Sunstrand manual for hydro lift 550-700 at end of stroke.  I had one read just over 700 testing it.  R3 hose is rated for 1250.  Never had any hose failures just swivel fittings giving out over time.

[Jeff-C175 7,203]

All done.  I know why it was leaking. The three bolts that hold the sections together were BARELY TIGHT!!!  I'm sure I could have fixed the leak simply by snugging up those bolts, but I had the kit and it was on the bench by the time I discovered the loose bolts. 

 

If you have a valve that leaks between the sections, CHECK THIS FIRST!

 

And what's interesting is that this valve has never been apart.  The bolts were never torqued from the factory.  I am sure of this because there was red paint between the sections.  Just a wee bit seeped in and I had to clean it off before reassembling.  Must have been built on a Friday after a liquid lunch.

 

No more weepy leaks, at least during the five minutes I ran it after buttoning everything back up.

 

One thing to note if anyone tackles this job... Between the two sections there are six very thin clear plastic washers at each bolt location, three on each side.  Luckily I saw them when I took it apart, they would be very easy to miss.  I don't know their purpose but I did put them back in.  I suspect leaving them out would not be noticed though. Not seeing them and having them inside when reassembling would be bad.

 

Sorry I didn't photo document the process my hands were dirty and I just wanted to get done.

 

Here's a couple pics:

This is the valve after I pulled it and wiped a bunch of dirt and oil off.  It was NASTY dirty!

 

This is what the Speed Flex stainless braided lines look like installed.  I don't think these will ever go bad!  NO swivel joints any more, not needed.  The adapters are ORB -5 and -6 to JIC 37°.  The hose ends I ended up using the 'field replaceable' ones from Earl's.  Wanted to save a trip to the hydraulic shop.  They were not the easiest to install, cutting this hose can be a chore.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Jeff-C175

[Chestnut 315]

On 12/23/2020 at 10:24 PM, 8ntruck said:

A 3/8 hose will flow more volume with less pressure drop.  If you have room for the larger hoses and the required larger bend radius it has, your pump won't have to work as hard.

To put a number on 8ntruck's comment, the x-sectional area of a 1/4 hose is a bit less than half that of the 3/8 hose, so at the same flow volume the velocity in the 3/8 hose will be less than half of the 1/4 hose. If you know the pump output there's a little chart on Parker Hannifin's blog that tells what size to use based on their maximum recommended flow velocity. Looking at their chart, 1/4" would be good for up to about 3 gpm and 3/8" would be good for about 6.5 gpm for pressure line. 

http://blog.parker.com/three-key-words-in-hydraulic-hose-sizing-id-dash-size-and-nomogram

Edited December 27, 2020 by Chestnut
Actually printed the chart put on my glasses and got better numbers