HF Generator powered by C-165

[giddyap 1,569]

4 hours ago, Handy Don said:

There are a couple of electricians that are members here and they would advise working with an electrician for making up the connecting cable--and I concur.

Yes indeed I will hire an electrician, but first I must find the circuits of several breakers in the main panel. The generator panel was installed by the previous owner and it does have a 4 prong male connector mounted outside.

To all who contributed their valuable expertise, I want you to know I appreciate your help

[ebinmaine 67,318]

9 hours ago, Handy Don said:

There are a couple of electricians that are members here and they would advise working with an electrician for making up the connecting cable--and I concur

Some states (maybe all?)  that's a law. And a very good one. 

 

We'll run wires here but that's it. 

 

ALL connections MUST be done by a licensed electrician. 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,318]

@giddyap

VERY impressive set-up. 

 

The horsepower rule as stated is a minimum. 

 

We've been thinking on getting a whole house generator here. We have electric well water, hot water and fridge we'd like to power during outages. 

We would need minimum 10K, more like 12K to be realistic. 

 

The only engine already on hand that would do that is the K582 destined for Colossus. 

 

Not sure what route we'll go yet. 

 

It's nice to see what others are doing.....

[DennisThornton 4,769]

10 hours ago, giddyap said:

I know you meant me  Now I am free to ask a dumb question. Must it be grounded and how?

Doubt it needs a ground but that's easy if needed.  Mostly likely just needs contact with the outputs, like any VOM.  And "Nope!" .  Wasn't aimed at you!  Keep up the good work and remember what you did so I can ask you later when I do mine!

[lynnmor 7,302]

I built my own house, machine shop (single and 3 phase), barn and tool shed.  No electrician ever set foot on the property, save for the required final inspection.

 

A poor mans frequency meter is an electric clock with a second hand plugged into the generator and another clock with a second hand either plugged into the house electric or battery operated.  When both synchronize, the engine speed is correct.

 

I run a 5000 watt (6250 peak) generator for backup.  It has run continuously, except for fueling and oil check, for over a week a few times.  I can run the well pump and everything but air conditioning and the electric water heater.  For hot water, I shut down everything but a couple of lamps and turn on the water heater for a couple of hours every other day.  The only issue I ever had was carburetor icing, that I solved by partially covering the generator with a box.

[Handy Don 12,172]

1 minute ago, lynnmor said:

A poor mans frequency meter is an electric clock with a second hand plugged into the generator and another clock with a second hand either plugged into the house electric or battery operated.  When both synchronize, the engine speed is correct.

I can't remember the last time I saw a motor-movement electric clock with a second hand, but then I live in suburbia and love my gadgets! My "analog" clocks are all battery powered.

A distinct drawback of suburbia is that I can no longer do my own wiring and then simply have it inspected. The work must be done by a licensed electrician who must request the inspection. No inspection voids coverage on my homeowner insurance, so that's not an option.

@giddyap can copy your "load shifting" trick with his 10-circuit transfer panel--once he finds out where all his circuits go, of course! 

[WHX?? 48,800]

16 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

A poor mans frequency meter is an electric clock with a second hand plugged into the generator and another clock with a second hand either plugged into the house electric or battery operated.  When both synchronize, the engine speed is correct

Wow ...is that really how they do it in hillbilly country Jeffrey @WVHillbilly520H?!??! 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

7 minutes ago, WHX24 said:

Wow ...is that really how they do it in hillbilly country Jeffrey @WVHillbilly520H?!??! 

Unfortunately I shy away from the electrical side of things over 12-14 VDC.

[giddyap 1,569]

7 hours ago, DennisThornton said:

remember what you did so I can ask you later when I do mine!

In the mean time you will find more info on my other post,

 Harbor Freight generator  By giddyap, December 3. There are also links to the original build by HankB in 2011. I reached out and asked for his comments., but he didn't reply. I'm 71 and will do my best to remember what I did. lol    

[bds1984 1,429]

I have the same generator I made to mount on the front attach-a-matic mount that gets swapped between my C165 and 315-8.  I originally had the generator mound on the mid-mount attach-a-matic but I found too much lateral play that would cause the belt to throw off the generator pulley.  Once I changed my mount design to the front, it felt more solid, and the weight of the generator provided all the belt tension needed. 
Both machines have plenty of power to run and didn't even flinch when I plugged in 3200 watts worth of appliances (electric grill and space heater).  1 HP = 746 watts, so if one has at least a 14 HP engine, you can definitely run this generator with no issue regarding running or starting watts.  I mainly run mine on my 315-8 (it clears the hood better) with equal size pulleys on the engine and generator so I don't have to worry about calculating speeds even though all of my WHs have tachometers on them; it is also quieter and easier on fuel than my C165.  I understand the desire to not have to run full throttle on an engine in this situation, but keep in mind, most of our air-cooled engines are designed to be run at 3600 rpm for proper air flow and lubrication.... Gas is a lot cheaper than having to repair a K341.

[giddyap 1,569]

1 hour ago, bds1984 said:

Once I changed my mount design to thethe full weight front, it felt more solid, and the weight of the generator provided all the belt tension needed. 

Pictures please?

1 hour ago, bds1984 said:

 I originally had the generator mound on the mid-mount attach-a-matic but I found too much lateral play that would cause the belt to throw off the generator pulley.

This sounds like the wide frame Cub Cadet snow plow frame I modified. The slotted end attaches to the mid mount and was eight inches wide. I anticipated the lateral play problem and hammered the frame to 12 inches wide. Offset turnbuckles on the front mount or resting the weight on a block may also reduce lateral play. I have yet to find out. 

[JoeM 7,871]

22 hours ago, giddyap said:

The generator panel was installed by the previous owner and it does have a 4 prong male connector mounted outside

Sounds like all you need is a 4 wire generator cable. I have seen them at the box stores. I made my own because I needed a longer size then they sell.

by the looks of the panel you have a hand full of circuits that will have power and not the whole house. 

 

This is the transfer I used, It has a manual lock out feature so the generator will not feed back through the house and out to the power grid. When on the gen power, the top right breaker is turned off, this allows the manual slide to be raised and the middle breaker for the incoming generator power is then turned on. This powers the 8 circuits from the generator rather then the incoming power from the main box. 

We have gas heat so not much demand is necessary. Just runs enough to top off the fridge & freezer, make a pot or microwave some popcorn. 

[bds1984 1,429]

10 hours ago, giddyap said:

Pictures please?

 

 

 

This only pictures I have are in this post from the beginning of the year while I had it mounted to my C165.  What you don't see is on the bottom side are two casters mounted to aid in moving the unit around.  The end that mounts in the front attach-a-matic is 1/2" round-stock that locks into place just like the mule drive and doubles as the handle to move it around.  There is very little lateral movement in this set up from the short length of frames and I haven't detected any belt slip when I had it under 3200 watts, which is just less than half of the running capacity.  So far I am happy with this set up and not having a separate engine to maintain if I had a dedicated generator.

[giddyap 1,569]

1 hour ago, bds1984 said:

What you don't see is on the bottom side are two casters mounted to aid in moving the unit around.  The end that mounts in the front attach-a-matic is 1/2" round-stock that locks into place just like the mule drive and doubles as the handle to move it around.  There is very little lateral movement in this set up from the short length of frames and I haven't detected any belt slip when I had it under 3200 watts, which is just less than half of the running capacity.  So far I am happy with this set up and not having a separate engine to maintain if I had a dedicated generator.

I had fun going thru all your pictures. Mighty fine work and a very nice C-165 I would be proud to own. I encourage everyone to visit his site.

bds1984 I hope you don't mine that I took the liberty of posting your picture that caught my interest  

[giddyap 1,569]

bds1984 

I'm torn apart, long frame or short? I have to give this great thought before I cut mine in half.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2020 by giddyap
add photos

[bds1984 1,429]

I don't mind usage of my pictures; there here for all to see.

I have seen both short and long frame designs but the only way to find out is to test out your set-up.  It may work just fine with only tightening the left-side turnbuckle.  Perhaps try positioning the left side-turn buckle's bottom hook to the right side bottom hook's location (it'll be diagonal now) to help stable the lateral motion and keep the generator head inline with the engine's pulleys if there is too much side-to-side play.

[giddyap 1,569]

I'm including a picture of a Wheel Horse generator and mounting  frame for reference and comparison.  

[ebinmaine 67,318]

@giddyap any updates on the frame?

If you haven't already cut it down my vote is to try it out, see what happens...

[giddyap 1,569]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

any updates on the frame?

Yes I hung (blue) flat bars on the front attach-a-matic. They securely lock the frame and tractor as one and completly eliminate lateral movement. One thing I may change (but don't have to) is to add a spring loaded idler pulley. I think It would better control any long belt flapping than my shields  

Edited December 24, 2020 by giddyap
clarafication

[WHX?? 48,800]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:20 AM, giddyap said:

I encourage everyone to visit his site.

I'll second that ..... good thread bds 

[ebinmaine 67,318]

That looks great! I don't think you'll have any issues with that.

 

On the subject of the belt flapping versus idler pulley. You could further reduce the belt flapping by turning your two little fins into c-channel of a sort eliminating the ability of the belt to flap either up or down.

 

That said though, I'd recommend a spring loaded idler pulley or something that could be tightened because that way you would be able to wrap the belt that much further around one or both of the pulleys thereby increasing grip and the ability for the generator to keep up to the engine at the first sign of a load.

Edited January 12, 2021 by ebinmaine

[giddyap 1,569]

Harbor Freight 10,000w Generator

 

I paid $329,  tax (28) and shippiing (22) total was $380 on 12/03/2020. Extras, from Home Depot 25' connecting cord $50, meter from ebay $25, electrician inspection $65.  Need the electrcian for another visit total will be aboutt $600. The previous homeowner paid for the genny panel, $350 plus labor =$1000 I did not have to spend

 

HF new price $479 w/ Free shipping

             

            

[giddyap 1,569]

I replaced the belt guards (post #44) with two idler pulleys

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,036]

Why not just one idler on the bottom?

As the top span of belt tightens under load it will reduce the tension on the bottom span with two idlers.

As the load increases on the top span the bottom span gets quite lose and a bottom idler would take that up.

 

The two-idler setup on a single-stage snowthrower always fascinates me under varying loads.

 

Garry

[giddyap 1,569]

1 hour ago, gwest_ca said:

Why not just one idler on the bottom?

As the top span of belt tightens under load it will reduce the tension on the bottom span with two idlers.

 

Thank-you gwest_ca

This 2 pulley setup just popped into my head. It was easy to make and the mount I made for the shields could handle the new load. I will remove the top pulley and add new photos.  I appreciate your advice/suggestion.