Battery restoration? Sulfation? Snake oil?

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I've spent enough time with Google and YouTube that if I got paid minimum wage I could have bought several new batteries!

And!  I still don't know anymore than I did when I started!

 

Seems some things work for some folks but not others.  Of course some batteries are damaged internally and not fixable and some I suppose are just too far gone.  Some say it's all snake oil and wishful thinking!

 

Anyone care to share?

[AMC RULES 37,132]

From my experience, simply does not work.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

18 minutes ago, AMC RULES said:

From my experience, simply does not work.

Desulfation?  Or? 

Decades ago my Dad swore some liquid from JC Whitney revived his battery for awhile.  Odd that product is no longer available.. .   I tried today's new version a few years back with no good results.  

[JoeM 7,874]

I never believed changing "water" worked.

I have purchased a battery charger that has a manual mode. 15 as well as 2 amp.  I've brought a couple back by leaving them on the 2 amp setting for 24 hours. That has worked on some of my older batteries that would not take a charge other wise. 

[slim67 2,735]

New battery from Walmart 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

8 minutes ago, JoeM said:

I never believed changing "water" worked.

I have purchased a battery charger that has a manual mode. 15 as well as 2 amp.  I've brought a couple back by leaving them on the 2 amp setting for 24 hours. That has worked on some of my older batteries that would not take a charge other wise. 

I think that has worked for me as well, but it seems it didn't last that long.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

9 minutes ago, slim67 said:

New battery from Walmart 

Walmart, Tractor Supply and Sam's Club do indeed have some great fixes for tired batteries!

[ebinmaine 67,711]

I've never tried it personally and I'm not at all likely to do so.

Different folks have different type of luck with all kinds of things and I'm not going to have the intestinal fortitude to say to somebody that it simply can't work if their own experiences tell them it does.

 

If the battery is shorted out between two cells you're wasting your money and there's no way around it. 

 

If the battery is simply low on charge for any one of multitude different reasons and someone uses this desulfation method followed by charging the battery then in my eyes it was the charging that did the work and not the desulfation...

[lynnmor 7,315]

Better battery chargers have a mode to desulfate or equalize batteries.  Over time the plates build up with unwanted crud and using a charger with those capabilities can restore some life.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I followed a gent in another group that said he had success with alum battery conversions.  Quite a bit online regarding that but I've yet to try it.

Edited December 8, 2020 by DennisThornton
spelling....

[DennisThornton 4,769]

3 minutes ago, lynnmor said:

Better battery chargers have a mode to desulfate or equalize batteries.  Over time the plates build up with unwanted crud and using a charger with those capabilities can restore some life.

That's what got me interested again.  Hard to believe that big brand names would risk ruining their reputation with snake oil claims:

Schumacher SC1304 15 Amp 3 Amp 6V/12V Fully Automatic Smart Battery Charger Maintainer Auto Desulfator 

And

BatteryMINDer Plus Battery Charger/Trickle Charger/Desulfator

 

And yet I still read that "Desulfators don't work!"!

[Handy Don 12,251]

The differentiator is the particular battery's internal chemistry and how it is being used.  Where sulfur on the plates is a product of use in the battery, desulfator can work; where not, no value. Good luck finding a battery maker willing to share details about their product's chemistry beyond marketing hype.

Also, with sealed batteries, diagnosing "cell shorts" or "dead cells" or adding miracle elixirs aren't options.  We are in a replacement world, my friends and we got here because we consumers tend to buy the lowest cost and the easiest path.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

I have several garden tractors, an RV with 12v system that I'd like to expand, several UPSs and I'd like to build some larger ones to run electronics and for heat backup so I've got quite a bit of money in batteries and I'm going to spend quite a bit more.  If I could save or extend the life of some batteries it would help buy more tractors!

[pacer 3,174]

Kinda drifting off topic here, but----

No doubt many of you know that the "new" type chargers wont do nothing if your batt is stone dead. Seems they have to sense some voltage to activate charging!! I found this out the hard way when my old charger went south, went and got a brand new charger and wouldnt work, took it back (wally world) and they exchanged it -- still nothing. 

 

Ive always had a habit of checking that I have the charger plugged in by scratching the 2 leads to confirm I have power, well the 'new' charger wont pass this test. So I read the little directions and says 'needs XX voltage - 1 1/2 - 2 volts?? - to activate!!! say what? How am I gonna get 2 volts out of a dead battery?? (this was in one of my tractors) So, pondering for a few mins, I headed for the nearest pawn shop and quickly found an old style charger, ckd it in the store and it passed the 'scratch test'  With as many tractors/equip most of us has... well we gotta have a charger that will charge a dead batt.

 

I've come to appreciate Wal Mart  L&G bats - $30+/- Ive got one in a D160 that 5+ yrs old now, and another that into 3yrs.

 

 

 

 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

3 minutes ago, pacer said:

Kinda drifting off topic here, but----

No doubt many of you know that the "new" type chargers wont do nothing if your batt is stone dead. Seems they have to sense some voltage to activate charging!! I found this out the hard way when my old charger went south, went and got a brand new charger and wouldnt work, took it back (wally world) and they exchanged it -- still nothing. 

 

Ive always had a habit of checking that I have the charger plugged in by scratching the 2 leads to confirm I have power, well the 'new' charger wont pass this test. So I read the little directions and says 'needs XX voltage - 1 1/2 - 2 volts?? - to activate!!! say what? How am I gonna get 2 volts out of a dead battery?? (this was in one of my tractors) So, pondering for a few mins, I headed for the nearest pawn shop and quickly found an old style charger, ckd it in the store and it passed the 'scratch test'  With as many tractors/equip most of us has... well we gotta have a charger that will charge a dead batt.

 

I've come to appreciate Wal Mart  L&G bats - $30+/- Ive got one in a D160 that 5+ yrs old now, and another that into 3yrs.

 

 

 

 

You can parallel the dead battery with one with some charge to get the charger to start and later remove the temp battery. 

[JoeM 7,874]

1 hour ago, DennisThornton said:

it didn't last that long

Yep, kept those on tenders and machine that we not used a lot, worked out good. Just prolonged the inevitable! 

[BOB ELLISON 2,981]

I use Battery Tender Junior's on all my tractors and my 4 wheeler and I can turn over everyone just great.

I did look into a post about a guy that takes old batteries and drains out all the liquid and refills with baking soda to clean  then Epsom salt and distilled very hot water . Charge on low for 24 hours.

to much work for my so I buy new.

[DennisThornton 4,769]

30 minutes ago, BOB ELLISON said:

I use Battery Tender Junior's on all my tractors and my 4 wheeler and I can turn over everyone just great.

I did look into a post about a guy that takes old batteries and drains out all the liquid and refills with baking soda to clean  then Epsom salt and distilled very hot water . Charge on low for 24 hours.

to much work for my so I buy new.

Shaking and dumping a big battery can't be much fun. 

[ebinmaine 67,711]

29 minutes ago, DennisThornton said:

Shaking and dumping a big battery can't be much fun. 

Doesn't seem like it would be the safest thing in the world to do either

[squonk 41,166]

6 hours ago, DennisThornton said:

Desulfation?  Or? 

Decades ago my Dad swore some liquid from JC Whitney revived his battery for awhile.  Odd that product is no longer available.. .   I tried today's new version a few years back with no good results.  

JC also sold oil filters that were no more than toilet paper in a cannister and pellets you dropped into the spark plug hole to rebuild your engine! 

[Tractorhead 9,064]

I don‘t believe in any of that chemical „whizzards“.

 

best to take care to your batteries in my opinion it keep them well charged with an characteristics charger.

 

I use a Cetek charakteristics charger for that purposes, that uses IOUO Charakteristics.

Take care the batteries don’t be discharged below 50% for longer times, that increases the sulfatation process.

 

On the small Garden shed i installed a Solar System to be independent.

This Solar charger has a secondary connector normally for Starter batteries we use in RV.

I used in the past this secondary connector to recharge my Vehicles the had a longer Stay.

 

The Cetek have an further advance, it is able a lightly sulfated battery to refreshing.

Here a micro or nanosecond short will drop a high current, that can break the sulfatation,

until it is not too far gone. That‘s a electro chemical process.

but if the Acid has enough saturation if flips and won‘t work further.

 

If the sulfating process is happen once, i can‘t be undone, it just can be slowered or better smoothened.

same like a worn spindle, grease will reduce the wear further, but the wear that is happen can‘t be undone only by grease.

 

I don‘t believe in any of that wonderdrinks but in care of an characteristics charger.

A normal Starterbattery is constructed to keep 3 years, each tim3 over that timeline is given time.

In the last years the batteries changed over to other Acids but even to thinner lead plates,

That is the reason it is normally, that they will wear faster than older batteries.

Edited December 8, 2020 by Tractorhead

[DennisThornton 4,769]

39 minutes ago, squonk said:

JC also sold oil filters that were no more than toilet paper in a cannister and pellets you dropped into the spark plug hole to rebuild your engine! 

I read a review of JCW gas saving devices and after installing several of them he said he had to stop every few miles to drain out some gas or his tank would overflow!

 

Those toilet paper roll filters are still around!  https://www.frantzfilters.com/  And some say they are actually very good!  After seeing several videos cutting open FRAM oil filters I can see why!  WAY more filter media AND great for absorbing moisture.  The canisters and remote setup is not cheap but the media is!  I've heard that the TP can break down and go throughout the engine, but, who knows...

 

Not sure about the pellets or the "Engine Rebuild" in a can...

[Stepney 2,325]

For nearly a decade now I've topped up scrapyard batteries with boiling epsom salt/water mix and thrown them on my BatteryMINDer 1500.

Of the countless dozens, perhaps three in all have failed to work again. 

Some of them I would continue to use for 1-3 years.. reliably year round. Thats near the life of a cheap walmart battery .. I won't complain. Just this Summer I sold a 67 Sub Cadet with a 2007 EverStart 230cca battery in it.. I could walk away for a month and light it back up no trouble. When I got it the tractor hadn't moved in a few years and was dead as could be.

I dunno .. tends to work for me. 

Have a 2005 or so diehard group 24 i carry around as a jumper for anything that needs it which is still turning a tractor over just fine. 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

7 minutes ago, Stepney said:

For nearly a decade now I've topped up scrapyard batteries with boiling epsom salt/water mix and thrown them on my BatteryMINDer 1500.

Of the countless dozens, perhaps three in all have failed to work again. 

Some of them I would continue to use for 1-3 years.. reliably year round. Thats near the life of a cheap walmart battery .. I won't complain. Just this Summer I sold a 67 Sub Cadet with a 2007 EverStart 230cca battery in it.. I could walk away for a month and light it back up no trouble. When I got it the tractor hadn't moved in a few years and was dead as could be.

I dunno .. tends to work for me. 

Have a 2005 or so diehard group 24 i carry around as a jumper for anything that needs it which is still turning a tractor over just fine. 

I have to suspect that there is something to this or it wouldn't have such a following.  I think...  It's good to hear and I've ordered a

BatteryMINDer Model 12117: so I will try to see how it goes.  

 

How much epsom salts?

[JoeM 7,874]

22 minutes ago, Stepney said:

scrapyard batteries

My former neighbor works for NAPA part time and he tells me most of the batteries they replace with new are still good.....people just don't trust them and want new ones anyway. 

Not me, when I buy a new one the old one is BER!