K161

[953 nut 55,389]

10 hours ago, Gregor said:

I have always put blue locktite on the bolts

             Being a liquid it will probably lubricate the rod bolts enough to achieve the proper torque setting.

[Gregor 4,846]

1 hour ago, ebinmaine said:

I have always put blue locktite on the bolts.

1 hour ago, 953 nut said:

             Being a liquid it will probably lubricate the rod bolts enough to achieve the proper torque setting.

I watched a couple videos. I have been doing it wrong.

 

[ebinmaine 67,760]

Better to find that out now

[Gregor 4,846]

I took the pan back off the K161. I decided to redo the connecting rod, per Normans video. I also reinstalled this little gizmo, with the bendable tabs. I don't know why I didn't put it in the first time, I gonna chock it up to stupidity.

As a side note, I bought 2 new torque wrenches. Minimum on the larger one is 25 ft. lbs.  Maximum on the smaller one is 200 in. lbs. The torque for this rod is 210 in lbs, which is 17.5 ft. lbs.  I still have my old needle type, but it's getting hard for this old man to see.

[Gregor 4,846]

I still don't have the new coil, and a part for the starter recoil. The new/used shroud I received had to have a bit of re-work. It didn't have the mounting bolts for the gas tank bracket, and the bolt holes for the recoil mounting seemed to be metric. No hardware I had would fit. The bottom bolts holding the shroud to the bearing plate were stripped, and had to be re-tapped in the bearing plate. The gas tank is also new/used, and is a slightly different style. It looks in the pic like it ought to be turned around, but the gas cap interferes with the strap that holds it down, so, it is what it is. It still interferes this way, but not as bad. Maybe a very long hose clamp is the answer. I thought if this motor turned out fine, and ran good,maybe I could put it on the 656. No way all that is going to fit under the hood of a 656. When I do get the coil, and the part for the starter, one of you fine gentlemen may have to come and help me get it to the floor.

[ebinmaine 67,760]

Nice work. To put that on the 656 just move the tank to the shelf where it would be for a Kohler engine. 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

So tonight I got my new coil for the K161. I have to remove the old coil from the magneto, and install the new coil in it's place. It says in the instructions, if I have to extend a primary wire to reach my points, (which I do) I can simply splice on a longer wire. On this coil are the spark plug wire, and 2 small black wires. One of the black wires goes to case ground. The other to my points. Does it matter which wire I extend and take to the points? Never had to do this before. In the past I have always received the ENTIRE coil/magneto assembly. Thanks Greg

P.S. I hate weekends. You can't call anyone with dumb questions.

[ebinmaine 67,760]

14 minutes ago, Gregor said:

You can't call anyone with dumb questions

We're here for all the dumb questions...

 

@jabelman or @953 nutnut Do you folks have any help to offer?

 

[Gregor 4,846]

Another question on the K161. I have read all I can find, and watched all the videos I can, about governors. No one ever addresses how to install  and adjust the type of governor I have on this motor. In the first pic the governor rod and link  to the carb are on the motor. The cam and governor assembly were NEVER removed from the block, so I am assuming it is correct.

This pic shows the backside of the governor lever.The yellow arrow is where the spring attaches to the leverThe green arrow shows the bottom of the torsion spring.

The third pic show the mechanism on the block. Again, this part was never removed. The green arrow is a stop pin. The black arrow points to a rotating disc. This disc appears to be keyed to the governor shaft as they both turn together. The white arrow shows a slot to accommodate  the bottom of the torsion springThe yellow arrow points to an arrow on a lever that is fixed in place, it does not move. I can see no witness marks in the little hole, that might indicate a spring was once there, so I'm guessing there wasn't. When everything is installed, and the governor rod is rotated counter clockwise, and the clamp is tightened, there is no spring tension on anything. The stop pin contacts nothing .If I rotate the disc against spring tension, to where the stop pin contacts the fixed lever  tighten the clamp on the governor lever, remove the clamp, the lever simply falls towards the carb, whether the throttle is open or closed. Again, no spring tension, on anything. This is exactly why I DO NOT remove governor assemblies. I have not messed with them enough to understand them. Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks  Greg

[WHNJ701 4,165]

11 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

We're here for all the dumb questions...

 

@jabelman or @953 nutnut Do you folks have any help to offer?

 

Isn't typically the longer wire that goes to the points?

[adsm08 2,098]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

Another question on the K161. I have read all I can find, and watched all the videos I can, about governors. No one ever addresses how to install  and adjust the type of governor I have on this motor. In the first pic the governor rod and link  to the carb are on the motor. The cam and governor assembly were NEVER removed from the block, so I am assuming it is correct.

This pic shows the backside of the governor lever.The yellow arrow is where the spring attaches to the leverThe green arrow shows the bottom of the torsion spring.

The third pic show the mechanism on the block. Again, this part was never removed. The green arrow is a stop pin. The black arrow points to a rotating disc. This disc appears to be keyed to the governor shaft as they both turn together. The white arrow shows a slot to accommodate  the bottom of the torsion springThe yellow arrow points to an arrow on a lever that is fixed in place, it does not move. I can see no witness marks in the little hole, that might indicate a spring was once there, so I'm guessing there wasn't. When everything is installed, and the governor rod is rotated counter clockwise, and the clamp is tightened, there is no spring tension on anything. The stop pin contacts nothing .If I rotate the disc against spring tension, to where the stop pin contacts the fixed lever  tighten the clamp on the governor lever, remove the clamp, the lever simply falls towards the carb, whether the throttle is open or closed. Again, no spring tension, on anything. This is exactly why I DO NOT remove governor assemblies. I have not messed with them enough to understand them. Any help is greatly appreciated.  Thanks  Greg

 

The second to last item in that manual is "Fuel Governor". It contains instructions to reset the governor if it gets disturbed.

[Gregor 4,846]

THANK YOU adsm08. That is a book I have not seen. Apparently, the disc, stop pin, and spring don't come into play, until the throttle cable and lever are installed. I of course don't have a throttle lever, as this motor came from a roto-tiller, I think. I am going to have to come up with one, then figure out a way to mount it.

[Gregor 4,846]

4 hours ago, jabelman said:

Isn't typically the longer wire that goes to the points?

That's what I figured, but one wire is only about an inch longer than the other.

[WHNJ701 4,165]

24 minutes ago, Gregor said:

That's what I figured, but one wire is only about an inch longer than the other.

Hook it up that way, put the flywheel on, with the plug out, give it a spin by hand and see if it sparks

[Gregor 4,846]

15 minutes ago, jabelman said:

Hook it up that way, put the flywheel on, with the plug out, give it a spin by hand and see if it sparks

That's just what I am going to do. If it's wrong, I will know better the next time, I guess.

Now that I have a make-shift throttle cable hooked up, that   wire, and getting this thing to the floor, is the only thing sI need try try and start this thing up. Providing I can spin it with my drill without breaking anythng important.. With the throttle cable hooked to the disc the way it is, there is only about 1/4" of movement in the cable. In time, I am going to have to come up with something better.

[Gregor 4,846]

So, after a couple trips to the hardware store, I got everything together. They even had hose clamps long enough to go clear around my fuel tank. I was surprised.  I extended the longer of the 2 wires, installed the magneto and flywheel, spun it over, and had spark. Called my engine hoist, and he was out of town.  I got it to the floor, eventually.  Having never done this before, I didn't know what to expect. I bolted the motor to a piece of plywood, and parked my 656 on top of it. Hooked up the fuel line, put in some gas, and spun it over with my drill. I got my video camera out, and made a video of the initial start attempt. Unfortunately I don't know how to get the video from there to here. My videographer / computer geek, is also my engine hoist.   It started so fast it almost scared me. Ran like a top. My 656 proved insufficient. It was moving around. So I brought in my truck, and parked it on the board. That worked. I made another video with my phone on the 2nd. attempt. It is trying to load as I type this. I don' know if the video loaded or not, but it does run. Very well so far.

[Gregor 4,846]

Well it seems to have loaded, sort of. The fuel tank was spitting fuel all over my new paint, hence the rag.

[ebinmaine 67,760]

Sounds fantastic!

[Gregor 4,846]

The throttle cable is pretty much in-effective. I am going to have to come up with something different. I tried to adjust the low speed adjustment on the carb, as per instructions I got with the carb, that too was in-effective. I suppose that comes with buying  an after market carb. Maybe I will put the original back on. Overall I was pretty happy with it. If the Tecumseh H70 turns out this good, it will go back on the 656. If not, I may try to adapt this K161.

[ebinmaine 67,760]

8 hours ago, Gregor said:

after market carb

There are those of us that have had decent luck with them. 

I am NOT one of them. 

After having been bit more than once I'll not use one again nor will I ever recommend or install one. 

 

Rebuilding/cleaning an older carb is fairly simple in most cases. Replacements are often available from A to Z Tractor in Pennsylvania or by placing an ad here on Redsquare. 

 

 

If you haven't already done so there are a bunch of videos online you can watch to explain the timing of the Tecumseh engine. 

Once you've got the spark timing right the carb is the other "finicky" part. Those can be adapted from a Kohler engine. 

[oilwell1415 563]

On 12/18/2020 at 9:34 PM, Gregor said:

 

So what are you trying to tell us?

[Gregor 4,846]

I plead the fifth.

[Gregor 4,846]

About the governor. This motor did not have a throttle cable on it when it was on the rototiller years ago. I am trying to add one. There is a torsion spring on the governor lever that prevents the cable from moving to full throttle, unless you REALLY pull against that spring. Should that spring be removed when adding a throttle cable?

[Gregor 4,846]

I got my new parts in for the recoil start, and I have a functioning throttle cable on it now. When it's cold, set the choke and pull once. Turn off choke, pull, and it's running. If it's warm, just pull, one time and it's running. Really happy with this motor.

[adsm08 2,098]

38 minutes ago, Gregor said:

I got my new parts in for the recoil start, and I have a functioning throttle cable on it now. When it's cold, set the choke and pull once. Turn off choke, pull, and it's running. If it's warm, just pull, one time and it's running. Really happy with this motor.

 

Good. I have really fallen in love with the K-series engines. Simple, sturdy, parts are still out there.