K161

[Gregor 4,846]

Just did that yesterday actually. I was told the reason this motor was removed, was because it didn't have much power. I hope all this helps.

[953 nut 55,372]

@KAA 1973 

If a cylinder is not too worn it can be honed but it is important to check first.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

I have read through that, more than once. Very useful information. I do have a bore gauge ordered, but don't have it yet. If I find it needs bored, I will have it done, and have the crank ground also.  Of course it will mean ordering a new piston set and rod, but I can do that. My wife hasn't taken away my credit card yet.

[ebinmaine 67,719]

43 minutes ago, Gregor said:

My wife hasn't taken away my credit card yet

If she ever asks you for it kindly remind her that if you don't have things to do caused by buying stuff you will suddenly be spending much much more time with her...

She will likely hand you that one right back along with another two or three. 

[Gregor 4,846]

I have yet another question about this K161. ( I know, I have lots of questions, sorry ) I have rebuilt a lot of small 2 strokes, and in each case. the coil mounting hole are slotted for adjustment. Here is a coil from a 2 stroke. The coil from my Tecumseh H70 also has slotted holes for timing adjustment.  The coil for the Kohler K161 has simple holes. No room for adjustment. With the mounting bolts in, you can see how close the fit is. All the videos I have watched show the coil being rotated slightly, one way or the other for adjustment, but I have not found a video of this particular set up yet.

 

I am never sure how the pics are going to load. I hope this all makes sense.

[WHNJ701 4,165]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

I have read through that, more than once. Very useful information. I do have a bore gauge ordered, but don't have it yet. If I find it needs bored, I will have it done, and have the crank ground also.  Of course it will mean ordering a new piston set and rod, but I can do that. My wife hasn't taken away my credit card yet.

With all the practice and tools your getting, just open "gregor's small engine repair" 

[Gregor 4,846]

11 minutes ago, jabelman said:

With all the practice and tools your getting, just open "gregor's small engine repair" 

If it were a job, it wouldn't be fun any more. I have fixed several mowers, but never charged anyone, except for parts. Not real sure how my local small engine guy feels about that, but will no longer work on 2 strokes. Besides, I don't know if either of these motors are ever gonna run again.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Gregor
addition

[Gregor 4,846]

On 12/6/2020 at 7:39 PM, oliver2-44 said:

Unless there’s some thing significantly wrong with the Carb I would suggest giving it a good deep cleaning.  Especially if you were considering an aftermarket Carb. I’ve bought 2 aftermarket. One works good and the other has no high speed adjustment no matter what I tried.

I am trying to save the old carb, but I have my doubts. I put it in acetone, for 2 days  with an occasional brushing, poking, scraping. Then I put it through a couple cycles of my ultra sonic cleaner with straight Simple Green. ( Don't know exactly why, but that sonic cleaner has a profound effect on my hearing aids. You think tinnitus is bad! )  It is cleaner anyway. The discoloration at the bottom of the bowl will not come out, even with a wire brush on my drill. Took some doing to get the float shaft out. I got a kit to rebuild it. Who knows, might work, might not. I have a new one on order, just in case.

[ebinmaine 67,719]

@pullstart and others would advise you to pop a Kohler carburetor on there. 

 

[Gregor 4,846]

31 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

@pullstart and others would advise you to pop a Kohler carburetor on there. 

 

According to my small engine guy, it is a Kohler.  This is the Kohler K161. Not the Tecumseh H70. Sometimes I get really confused.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Gregor

[ebinmaine 67,719]

Oh oh oh oh oh

[Gregor 4,846]

I got my small and large bore gauges today, so of course, I had to play with them. After watching some videos, and learning what I could, I have determined the cylinder bore, and valve guides on my K161 are very good. That's assuming I am doing everything right of course. I lapped the valves today, then I checked to see what I had on order. I have new valves ordered. Well, that was a waste of time. Here's a hint. Do all your valve lapping, head smoothing, cylinder honing, and all that other stuff before you paint your block. That brake clean and carb cleaner is he!!  on new paint.

[Gregor 4,846]

I got stuff today. Lots of stuff. Do ya think I can turn all this into something that runs? Everything new inside except lifters, and bearings, cam and crank. I didn't want to remove the cam. I really don't have a good way to remove and replace the bearings, so I left them alone

You put all this together and it gets a lot heavier anyway.

 

Still waiting on the new carb, and some parts from A to Z

 

 

[953 nut 55,372]

On 12/9/2020 at 8:29 AM, Gregor said:

I have rebuilt a lot of small 2 strokes, and in each case. the coil mounting hole are slotted for adjustment. Here is a coil from a 2 stroke. The coil from my Tecumseh H70 also has slotted holes for timing adjustment.  The coil for the Kohler K161 has simple holes. No room for adjustment.

The timing on a Kohler is adjusted by the gap of the ignition points.

Ignition timing on Kohler engines.

 

Gapping the ignition points at .020 has always been the standard answer to how points should be set. That probably will get you into the ballpark where the engine will run, but with a bit of additional effort you can improve the engine’s power and performance.

The Kohler engine manual in the Red Square files section covers two methods for setting the ignition timing, Static Timing and using a Timing Light. This manual is a relatively new manual and it overlooks the fact that many of our engines were built prior to the ACR (automatic compression release) camshaft.

Earlier engines (mostly 1965 and earlier) had a Spark Advance camshaft that can not be timed using Static timing. At rest (and very low RPMs) the timing is retarded to fire slightly after TDC. The timing mark (SP) on your flywheel is at twenty degrees before top dead center but at rest the points on these engines break about ten degrees after top dead center. The only reliable way to check or set the timing on these engines is with a timing light.

There are a couple ways to determine what camshaft you have. Presuming the camshaft in your engine is the one it was born with the data plate on the engine has a suffix that can tell you what camshaft was used. The table below will tell you the suffix applicable to your engine. The other way to determine what camshaft you have is to remove the cam gear cover and take a look. If you see a mechanism attached to the cam gear it is the ACR cam.

 

 

The following engines have the spark advance camshaft;

K-141, Suffix prior to “C”

K-161, Suffix prior to “J”

K-181, Suffix prior to “D”

K-241, Suffix prior to “D”

[Gregor 4,846]

That is some good information. I don't have a timing light, and have not used one since in my teens, I don't think. My K161 does not have a cam cover. The model # is K161T. The spec # is 281271j. I assume they are talking about the model #. When and if I get this thing running, I will probably take it to my small engine guy, and watch as he fine tunes, the timing, carb, and governor. He's pretty good at feeding me info.

[sparkie333 265]

On 12/12/2020 at 7:52 PM, Gregor said:

I got stuff today. Lots of stuff. Do ya think I can turn all this into something that runs? Everything new inside except lifters, and bearings, cam and crank. I didn't want to remove the cam. I really don't have a good way to remove and replace the bearings, so I left them alone

You put all this together and it gets a lot heavier anyway.

 

Still waiting on the new carb, and some parts from A to Z

 

 

 

Man do your self a favor and change out the scratching washers on top of engine cover and put a flat washer on of you fill like you need one. I don't thank that I ever seen a washer like that on a Kohler.  I would put a washer on like you got on the head make it look better and match better. JMHO. But u got that thing looking good.

[Gregor 4,846]

"Man do your self a favor and change out the scratching washers on top of engine cover and put a flat washer on of you fill like you need one. I don't thank that I ever seen a washer like that on a Kohler.  I would put a washer on like you got on the head make it look better and match better. JMHO. But u got that thing looking good."

 

Those washers and nuts secure the bracket for the gas tank, once I get my new engine shroud.

 

Just for fun. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAVuplb54kM

Edited December 14, 2020 by Gregor

[Gregor 4,846]

I was reading through the Kohler manual last night, found this on page 8.7. The area in the red box confused me. "gas fueled"? If I am reading this right, gap is .018

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,719]

1 hour ago, Gregor said:

I was reading through the Kohler manual last night, found this on page 8.7. The area in the red box confused me. "gas fueled"? If I am reading this right, gap is .018

 

 

I don't know what the deal is there but all my gas engines of all the brands are set to about .025

[Handy Don 12,261]

2 hours ago, Gregor said:

If I am reading this right, gap is .018

This is for engines running on propane or natural gas. Gaseous fuels vs. liquid like gasoline or diesel.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Handy Don

[Gregor 4,846]

Thanks   That makes sense

[bc.gold 3,403]

Pre-detonation damage.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

I got more stuff today. Not enough to make it go    , but closer anyway. Then I promptly ran out of paint. So now I wait. Again.

[Gregor 4,846]

Yesterday I was watching a video made by Norman of isavetractors.com.( I have watched it many times) He was rebuilding a Kohler. A 12hp. I think. When he installed the rod, he oiled up the connecting rod bolts. I have rebuilt a lot of small 2 strokes, so this 4 stroke is new to me. Far be it from me to question Normans methods, but this just seemed wrong to me. I have always put blue locktite on the bolts, and that's what I did with this K161. Am I going to live to regret that?

Edited December 18, 2020 by Gregor

[ebinmaine 67,719]

9 hours ago, Gregor said:

Yesterday I was watching a video made by Norman of isavetractors.com.( I have watched it many times) He was rebuilding a Kohler. A 12hp. I think. When he installed the rod, he oiled up the connecting rod bolts. I have rebuilt a lot of small 2 strokes, so this 4 stroke is new to me. Far be it from me to question Normans methods, but this just seemed wrong to me. I have always put blue locktite on the bolts, and that's what I did with this K161. Am I going to live to regret that?

I can't answer for sure if you're going to live to regret that but most rod bolts are torque to yield of some sort.

 

That torque rating is achieved by a properly lubricated bolt and nut , hence the oil.