K161

[Gregor 4,846]

I hated to start a new project, as I have 2 going on right now, but I am at a stand still, waiting for parts. So rather than sit here and watch Audie Murphy all day, I tore into the K161 I got yesterday.

The first bit of bad news, the gas tank has a hole rusted through it. If any of you fine folks have this style gas tank, and you don't like it anymore, I would be interested.

The shroud is in pretty rough shape, but if I can't replace it, I think I can repair it.

The cooling fins are broke off the flywheel. Not sure what might have caused this. Maybe one broke, and took out the others. Again, If you have one you are mad at......

On the upside, none of the head bolts , or muffler bolts were froze. Came right out.

The piston and valves have typical carbon build up for a 30 year old motor.

Piston goes up and down, valves go up and down. Everything seems to move as it should with no binding or extra play in it.

On another note, had a guy call me this morning. Saw my ad on CL. He has a Kohler ???. Found it along side the road. It is a horizontal shaft. Too dark in his shed, can't see any numbers. Turns over so far, then it just stops. He has no idea why. He also has a brand new Kohler 8hp (he thinks) short block. Still in the box. Again, can't see any numbers. Do you want to sell them? Of course. How much do you want? Well, I don't know. I'll have to think about that.

Why do people do that? Drives a man to drink, but it's a little early in the day for me.

[stevasaurus 22,769]

Just for kicks, clean off the top of the piston and see what the numbers are on top of it.  That will help to know if someone has been in there before.  I'm thinking those fins were broke trying to pry the wheel for some reason.  

[oliver2-44 9,773]

that should be a common gas tank.  If you don't find one, that one can be repaired. 

[Gregor 4,846]

I didn't see any numbers or marks on top of the piston, but I did see this. It reminds me of when the Kawasaki motor on my JD sucked a butterfly screw in to the cylinder. Kind-a beat up the piston some, but I put it back together, and it's still running 3 years later. Did something get in there and beat it up? Also, the valve cover seems to be stuck on tight. I do have the nut off, but it refuses to budge. Am I missing something, or it it just stuck?

[Gregor 4,846]

It was just very stuck. As was the reed plate

[ebinmaine 67,717]

Ain't that piston odd. 

 

How's the head?

 

If you look closely at the gas tank and the rest of it is ok I'd repair that one. 

Go over it with a fine toothed comb so to speak though. Looks like it's surface rusted and pitted other places. 

 

[ebinmaine 67,717]

2 minutes ago, Gregor said:

It was just very stuck. As was the reed plate

Good that you got that off. I was going to suggest a 6 foot crowbar. 

[Gregor 4,846]

I have the motor mostly tore down I don't think I am going to remove the cam and governor. The lobes on the cam look very good, and the ACR weights move free, as does the governor. Besides, I read the book on how to remove and reinstall, and I'm not sure I understand it all. It will stay as is. So Far I am pretty happy with what I have found. Keep in mind this is coming from a guy who doesn't really know what he is doing, but has watched a LOT of Youtube. I spent over an hour trying to remove the bearing plate. I knew I could get it off, but I wanted to get it off without breaking it. Every time it popped I groaned. All of the specs I have checked seem to be very good, with one exception. The valve clearance on the exhaust valve was .025. According to the book, it should be .017. Maybe it will be closer after cleaning up the valve, the seat, and lapping, if not, I guess a new valve is in order. Notice anything missing in the first pic? The oil dipper seems to have dipped out. It was not in the pan. After some measuring I determined it could have been drained out during an oil change. Maybe someone noticed it, maybe not. At any rate, I need a new rod. In the second pic you can just make out the dot on the cam for the timing mark. Try as I might, I could not find a mark on the tooth of the crankshaft gear. Back to the book. Seems the mark isn't on the tooth, it is on the crank itself. Ahhh, there it is. A little white out and it will be a lot easier for me to see. I'm old ya know. The third and fourth pics shows the cylinder walls. There is no ridge what so ever, and they measure good. Any scratches on the piston I believe could be removed with steel wool, if I wanted. After some clean up, new rings, possibly new valves, gasket set, maybe a new carb, and a new flywheel,(that be be hard to find) it just might run again.

[Gregor 4,846]

After some googling, it seems this motor and flywheel were used on Wheel Horse tractors. Pleaseeee check your bone yards.  https://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=kohler+41300&client=firefox-b-1-d&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwip2Myn2brtAhWHZs0KHYodDKYQjJkEegQIAhAB&biw=1600&bih=758#imgrc=MtF3Xk1N59_uHM

[oliver2-44 9,773]

Unless there’s some thing significantly wrong with the Carb I would suggest giving it a good deep cleaning.  Especially if you were considering an aftermarket Carb. I’ve bought 2 aftermarket. One works good and the other has no high speed adjustment no matter what I tried.
If you don’t have a bucket of carb cleaner soak it in lacquer thinner for a day or 2. Then start with a pipe cleaner and run it in every little passage.  Now if you wife has an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner borrow it. Because it’s hers you won’t want to take it out to the shop.  Just bring your carb parts in to the kitchen or bathroom where she keeps it and let it clean then for several hours. Once you’ve done that let us know how cold it gets sleeping in the garage. ....But just have warm thoughts of how good that ultrasonic cleaner worked. 
PS I use Purple Power degreaser full strength in my wife’s 

Edited December 7, 2020 by oliver2-44

[Gregor 4,846]

I bought an ultra sonic cleaner for the specific purpose of cleaning carbs and small parts. If my wife wants to use it, she'll have to bring her jewelry to the garage.

[ebinmaine 67,717]

Interesting that the rod dipper is gone. 

Someone swap oil pans to a shallow sump?

I'll second the carb cleaning. 

I've seen/tried 3 of the cheap carbs. Not again. 

[bc.gold 3,403]

9 hours ago, Gregor said:

Do you want to sell them? Of course. How much do you want? Well, I don't know. I'll have to think about that.

Why do people do that? Drives a man to drink, but it's a little early in the day for me.

Ninety nine percent of the folks I ask their price are clueless,  then when I make what I consider a reasonable offer it's like you insulted them.

 

After they're display of shock I ask then what they had in mind, 95% actually had a figure in mind but to timid to spit it out.

 

The price given is usually outrageous, and not one I'm about to meet half way. I just tell them well last night was a good night at the poker table but my take won't cover.

 

Best yet if you can negotiate the sale within ear shot of the missus who will be your best ally. Don't be discouraged at a no sale - politely take your leave and give the seller a card with your contact information telephone, text and email.

 

 

 

 

[953 nut 55,372]

11 hours ago, oliver2-44 said:

aftermarket Carb. I’ve bought 2 aftermarket. One works good and the other has no high speed adjustment no matter what I tried.

I had one that couldn't be adjusted for high speed, turned out the jet and needle had much larger openings than the carter I removed (probably would have worked OK on a 16 HP). I used the jet and needle from the old carb (as well as the brass float) and it worked fine.

18 hours ago, Gregor said:

had a guy call me this morning. Saw my ad on CL. He has a Kohler ???. Found it along side the road. It is a horizontal shaft. Too dark in his shed, can't see any numbers. Turns over so far, then it just stops. He has no idea why. He also has a brand new Kohler 8hp (he thinks) short block. Still in the box. Again, can't see any numbers. Do you want to sell them? Of course. How much do you want? Well, I don't know. I'll have to think about that.

Take a few minutes to find out what a machine shop will charge to turn the crank shaft and cut the block along wit a new rod and piston, total it up and offer the CL clown half that amount for both engines. Presuming the short-block is new as stated I bet he will take it.

[Gregor 4,846]

16 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Ain't that piston odd. 

 

How's the head?

 

I wasn't even smart enough to look at the head. After some initial clean up, the head has the same marks as the piston, in the same area. I'm assuming something got in there at some time, or maybe just carbon build up.

While I am here I have yet another question. I took the top ring off the piston to check ring gap in the cylinder. After I took it out of the cylinder I noticed a small dot on the ring. Also the ring is chamfered like shown in the pic. I wasn't sure how it was oriented on the piston. Obviously I should have paid more attention. I took to youtube to see what I could learn. One video said, if there is a mark on the ring, (such as a dot), the mark goes to the top. Another video said, the chamfered edge goes down. Of course these 2 videos contradict each other. The chamfered edge is on the inside of the ring.

I would like to order a new rod, rings, valves and all the other goodies for this motor, but if I can't find a new flywheel, none of it will do much good. For now I have things soaking for clean up, then I'll bag it, tag it, and put it up.

[953 nut 55,372]

The rings you buy should come with a sheet showing how to orient the rings. If you haven't done so take the time to read through the tutorial @prondzy did, it is excellent!

 

[ebinmaine 67,717]

It's been a long time since I've messed with engines and pistons but I would agree that the dot goes up it's to do with oil control I believe.

 

I think it makes sense looking at the marks that at some point that engine may have lost a chunk of carbon and smushed it. 

 

I wouldn't get too awful worried about trying to find a flywheel for that because it was a very popular engine for at least a decade, maybe more. 

 

My suggestions on trying to find a flywheel would be to put a wanted ad on this site and also call Lincoln at A to Z tractor in Pennsylvania.

 

[Gregor 4,846]

THANK YA   THANK YA    THANK YA!  I have a flywheel and shroud coming from A to Z. When it gets here and all is good, I will order all my new parts. I gotta remember this A to Z place.

[ebinmaine 67,717]

22 minutes ago, Gregor said:

THANK YA   THANK YA    THANK YA!  I have a flywheel and shroud coming from A to Z. When it gets here and all is good, I will order all my new parts. I gotta remember this A to Z place.

You're quite welcome! That's where we are all here for... Helping out.

 

I normally will make Lincoln my first call after checking with this site.

 

Mental note, ALWAYS call him and do not rely on his website because he's very very busy....

[Gregor 4,846]

Lincoln sent me an email with pics of the flywheel, fuel tank, and shroud he is sending me. Looks exactly like mine. Sooooo, I decided to do some clean up on the K161, and I ordered some parts. If the parts ever show for my Tecumseh, I might get that back together.

[tom2p 2,394]

13 minutes ago, Gregor said:

Lincoln sent me an email with pics of the flywheel, fuel tank, and shroud he is sending me. Looks exactly like mine. Sooooo, I decided to do some clean up on the K161, and I ordered some parts. If the parts ever show for my Tecumseh, I might get that back together.

my mouth is watering just looking at the pull start assembly 

 

the pull start on my 704 barely engaged - but even then only needed to grab a little to fire it up 

 

Gregor - no need for a starter, battery, etc - unless you are especially adverse to pull start or you have lights ... K161 will fire up with barely a pull 

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by tom2p

[Gregor 4,846]

After cleaning and inspecting my pull starter, I discovered it was broke. Luckily, the parts to repair it are still available.

[oilwell1415 563]

Did you bend the lock tabs on the connecting rod bolts down?  Or were they like that when you took it apart?

[Gregor 4,846]

I bent them down.

[KAA 1973 71]

The cylinder walls are pretty shiny

My brother scored a super clean 312-8 really cheap, previous owner said the engine was down on power so I had the motor rebuilt, it's still down on power.

Took it home and opened it up, cylinder bore was really shiny, ran a hone through it and put new rings on it and  now tons of compression, runs like new.

If your adding rings to a engine, honing the block is pertinent if there's no sign of cross hatching.