Cinnamon Horse C160 reporting for snow duty

[JCM 9,215]

I have confirmed this in both Mass and Maine which both go under the National electrical Code. ? But what do I know.

Edited December 6, 2020 by JCM

[squonk 41,171]

Another thing involving long cords on Gen sets. Today's conveniences almost always involve some kind of computer chip/control pc board. New hi-efficiency motors (ECM) ect. They need good CLEAN POWER. Not only does the genny have to be at the right voltage and frequency but it's got to be good at the appliance as well. Long cords cause voltage drop and possible damage to said appliances. Make sure your cord is AT LEAST 12 ga. wire and if possible, step it up to 10 or 8

[Sparky-(Admin) 21,352]

8 minutes ago, JCM said:

From what I have gathered for info on this From Inspectors and Licensed Electricians there is a device that goes over the Main panel breaker. This main must be in the off position before the power to the Generator is switched on. There is a bar that keeps the main off so the Generator does not backfeed. I just asked the inspector in town about this and confirmed it by several Electricians. Sorry for the poor explanation, Remember I am a Master plumber not electrician. Also this replaces the Transfer switch that used to be required.     Does this sound correct @squonk

You are correct, it’s called an interlock and is a legal way to tie a gen to a house.

 Just installed one at my in-laws place a month ago 

[squonk 41,171]

I've lived in my home for 32 years. I think the power has gone out for a total of 5 hours. (# of those were due to a drunk knocking down a pole.) I have a Generac 3000W (Wheel Horse) that I mount on Skonk. It has run a fan once just to test the genny when I got it. It does make a nice conversation piece at the steam pageant! 

[squonk 41,171]

6 minutes ago, Sparky said:

You are correct, it’s called an interlock and is a legal way to tie a gen to a house.

 Just installed one at my in-laws place a month ago 

So it basically does the lock out portion that a full transfer switch does? Never seen them before. But I've been out of the emergency power part of work for 5 years. Just looked it up. Cool idea. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by squonk

[pfrederi 17,743]

Eric:  if you had spent more time on your charger it could have been ready for this.  Watching you stop shift back up slowly...painful to watch.  Hydros are ever so much faster.

[Lee1977 6,682]

1 hour ago, pfrederi said:

Eric:  if you had spent more time on your charger it could have been ready for this.  Watching you stop shift back up slowly...painful to watch.  Hydros are ever so much faster.

Don't worry about Eric he'll get there eventually. We have been prodding and pushing, just can't get him to move any faster. 

[ZXT 2,401]

3 hours ago, pullstart said:

@Sparky @ZXT @oldlineman? With transformers knocking the power down from power lines to a home, how much juice could back feed from a 4500w 240V unit?  With the talk above of making laws to require an auto switch, I wonder what the harsh details are of the matter.  Obviously I’m not going to run out and try it or anything, but just wondering.

Enough to backfeed into a transformer and kill someone or yourself. Since transformers work both ways (as has been said) you would be energizing the downed lines, stepping up your 240v to roughly 13,800v (what i believe most residential lines to be, i know it varies). Not only would this put the linesman in danger if the lines suddenly became energized without knowing, it could also electrocute some kid playing in the snow who accidentally came into contact with them. As for you, if those downed power lines are shorted together or shorted to ground and you either didn't have a main breaker at all (Not at all uncommon on older installs) or you didn't have it turned off, you would experience a not-so-pleasant explosion in your face when you went to plug the suicide cord in. 

 

When it comes to electricity, the wattage isn't what kills you. If you grabbed hold of a 2p20 (20A 240v breaker), it can make you just as dead as a 2p200. Voltage is what gets you. 

Also, requiring a transfer switch of some sort isn't anything new. I haven't heard of any talk of requiring automatic transfer switches, that's more a convenience thing than safety. What you can do fairly easily and is perfectly safe is install (or have installed) is a generator transfer panel (pictured). I've been doing electrical work for 4 years and while I've installed a number of whole-home generators and transfer switches, I had never seen one until I was informed about them here on RS. Since then, coincidentally, I've installed 3 for customers and plan to install one on my house and my fathers. Each breaker has its own double-pole switch (essentially a tiny transfer switch) so there's no chance of backfeeding.

[lynnmor 7,321]

An interlock is just a piece of tin for a ridiculous price. Example

 

While one should never run a generator while connected to the power grid, the  whole idea that you can power up the neighborhood with your tiny generator is absurd.  Your generator will trip out immediately upon connection from the high load.  Only where there is little load can the generator cause a problem, and that would be a power outage that is very localized.

[ebinmaine 67,766]

2 hours ago, pfrederi said:

Eric:  if you had spent more time on your charger it could have been ready for this.  Watching you stop shift back up slowly...painful to watch.  Hydros are ever so much faster.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Lee1977 said:

Don't worry about Eric he'll get there eventually. ***He can't*** move any faster. 

 

 

It's all good men. I'll get there in good time. 

Work has been wide open throttle since about mid April and just starting to quiet down a bit. 

 

I've spoken to @JCM and @Stepney and some others about an issue over the last few months...

 

I've been fightin' an unknown as yet / to be diagnosed body pain issue.

 

Chronic pain syndrome,

some type of arthritis,

or fibromyalgia. 

 

I've made some good headway with help of a BBT and a doctor. 

I only have a limited amount of usable energy in a day and it HAS to saved for paying the bills. 

 

It's been a real pain (see what I did there) to figure out but I think I'm doing better. 

 

 

I am very much looking forward to using the Charger hydro and I'll get it done fairly soon. 

 

 

[Handy Don 12,281]

No argument that some stuff is overpriced, @lynnmor. Still and all, @ZXT's points are strong and his plan isn't all that costly. During an outage, it isn't at all certain that the current draw from the grid would trip out a generator--it would depend a lot on what was connected, where the lines were down, and other factors (a recent 6-day outage at my home affected only four other houses and two of those went off-grid with auto-transfer systems. Even the presence of another generator putting juice on the line could cause all to trip out or not. Better generators can sync their output frequencies based on the line load so that multiple generators can work together, on the same circuit. for instance. You just don't know what's down the line from your drop off the pole at the road.

[ZXT 2,401]

1 hour ago, Handy Don said:

During an outage, it isn't at all certain that the current draw from the grid would trip out a generator--it would depend a lot on what was connected, where the lines were down, and other factors

Even if it did trip the generator, it could still fry something/someone in the time that it took the breaker to react.

[rjg854 11,393]

To try to get this thread back on track, I know I kinda started it off   I have one of them there Ç160's 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Got about 4” of concrete in my area. Nice to have options!

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by WheelhorseBob

[ebinmaine 67,766]

9 minutes ago, rjg854 said:

To try to get this thread back on track, I know I kinda started it off   I have one of them there Ç160's 

No worries about the thread. Especially any of mine. 

I like to learn about all kinds of cool stuff. 

 

@JCM hey here's your C160 Hydro!!

 

[rjg854 11,393]

No no, MINE 

That's my hedgerow tractor 

[AHS 1,443]

7 hours ago, JCM said:

From what I have gathered for info on this From Inspectors and Licensed Electricians there is a device that goes over the Main panel breaker. This main must be in the off position before the power to the Generator is switched on. There is a bar that keeps the main off so the Generator does not backfeed. I just asked the inspector in town about this and confirmed it by several Electricians. Sorry for the poor explanation, Remember I am a Master plumber not electrician. Also this replaces the Transfer switch that used to be required.     Does this sound correct @squonk

Yup! Bingo! Geninterlock.com

[sparkie333 265]

8 hours ago, squonk said:

Remember, Transformers can step down voltage or step it up. You back feed 120 volts to the t,former and it may step it up to say 480 or more! That's the issue. 

You are so right about the transformers ---when they step it down  --in are city it is from 12,000 volts to out 240 house votes----------- so when you back feed it look how high it could go.

[SylvanLakeWH 25,619]

I have a whole house portable generator that hooks to the house with a simple plug. There is a disconnect in the basement for the main power. If it is not thrown, there will be no power to the house from the generator. If it is thrown, the house runs on the generator disconnected from the main line and there is no chance of sending current into the lines... it is idiot proof...(I use it therefore it is).

 

I Put it in under a permit. Inspected. Totally legal and safe for the line guys...

 

Great system because I can use my generator elsewhere as well... 

 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

All these storm related posts and while winter storms can be bothersome they can also be beautiful. Pic from this evening in NH.

[ebinmaine 67,766]

2 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

All these storm related posts and while winter storms can be bothersome they can also be beautiful. Pic from this evening in NH.

Beautiful !!!

[8ntruck 7,034]

1 hour ago, WheelhorseBob said:

All these storm related posts and while winter storms can be bothersome they can also be beautiful. Pic from this evening in NH.

 

Yup.  We had a similar sunset here in central Michigan a few nights back.  Didn't have a camera handy to snap a picture, though.

[8ntruck 7,034]

15 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

We ended up with about 6 inches of absolute muck slush cement slurry. Among the wettest snow one can get. 

 

Power's been out all night so we'll have to go get some drinking water or melt/boil snow. 

 

Across the state there's well over 100,000 accounts out. 

 

 

 

We'vs got a Generac that runs on propane and an automatic transfer switch.  There is maybe 15 or 20 seconds of no power before the V twin in the Generac fires up and takes over when the grid goes down.

 

This reminds me, the yellow "check me" light on the end of the Generac is on.  Probably wants the oil, oil filter and air filter changed.  Have to get that checked out this week.

[ZXT 2,401]

1 hour ago, WheelhorseBob said:

All these storm related posts and while winter storms can be bothersome they can also be beautiful. Pic from this evening in NH.

Now that's a sunset picture! Looks like something Microsoft would include as a "default" background picture on a new computer. Maybe you could sell it to them and earn some WH $$? 

 

2 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

I have a whole house portable generator that hooks to the house with a simple plug. There is a disconnect in the basement for the main power. If it is not thrown, there will be no power to the house from the generator. If it is thrown, the house runs on the generator disconnected from the main line and there is no chance of sending current into the lines... it is idiot proof...(I use it therefore it is).

 

I Put it in under a permit. Inspected. Totally legal and safe for the line guys...

 

Great system because I can use my generator elsewhere as well... 

 

What you have is a DPDT (Double pole, double throw) transfer switch. That's really the best way to go about it, as you don't have to pick and choose what couple of circuits you want to be powered by your generator as you do with the little generator panel I posted an example of. You just have to watch your loads. The only downfall of your setup (for existing services, at least) is that it has to be installed before your main breaker panel - not something most people can do without having the power company out to pull the meter, plus it means modifying your service.  

Edited December 7, 2020 by ZXT

[Roger R 448]

• As an Electrician for over 45 years I have installed countless legal and safe generator transfer systems. Bottom line is you cannot be able to back feed your power grid. several systems are available, including what I use on my house, (see the attached)  This unit has to match the panel exactly, and genrinterlock.com has a unit for almost every panel in existence.  It is also the best value for the price