Dual wheels.

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Good folks,

 

I have all necessary parts to put dual wheels on my 416-8 loader tractor. After reading a lot, it would seem duals on a wheel horse are a one way ticket to snapped axles. Is this so? My 416-8 has 1-1/8 axles with 8 pinions and most of the failures I've read about were hydro's. I kind of doubt 8-speed axles are any stronger than hydro axles? So are duals a bad idea?   

Edited December 4, 2020 by WheelhorseBob

[RandyLittrell 3,884]

I don't think its a good idea. my 1277 loader has 10.50's and I don't think I would want my track width any wider. Lots of weight in the rear with extra width is asking for trouble. You could go with dual 6-12's and not be too awful wide, but then I guess your not gaining much.

 

Mine doesn't have a very wide bucket so they would be wider as the bucket as well.

 

 

 

Randy

[ashtonosborne2019 18]

27 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

Good folks,

 

I have all necessary parts to put dual wheels on my 416-8 loader tractor. After reading a lot, it would seem duals on a wheel horse are a one way ticket to snapped axles. Is this so? My 416-8 has 1-1/8 axles with 8 pinions and most of the failures I've read about were hydro's. I kind of doubt 8-speed axles are any stronger than hydro axles? So are duals a bad idea?   

you can put duals on every tractor ihave duals on my 520-h and 416-8 to

[JAinVA 4,619]

Dual wheels on any tractor  may look cool to some.  If you are looking for the cool factor then do it. Most of the full size tractors run dual tires with fluids to gain traction.  If not fluid filled or counter weighted then you gain little in tractive effort with duals

[ebinmaine 67,703]

4 hours ago, JAinVA said:

If not fluid filled or counter weighted then you gain little in tractive effort with duals

Since TRACTION is about pounds per square inch you may even lose some. 

 

If you're installing duals for the extra weight and fluid-filling all 4 just run higher air pressure in the inside two. 

 

If you have a VERY rough terrain such as we do it might be best to keep to singles and use a counterbalance off the rear because it would be possible to have one outside tire doing all the work which is when you get in trouble. 

 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

My understanding is duals are for stability on a garden tractor when the bucket is raised. And of course they look cool. 

[ebinmaine 67,703]

10 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

My understanding is duals are for stability on a garden tractor when the bucket is raised. And of course they look cool. 

 

 

Adding a set of filled tires to the back of a garden tractor will absolutely offer stability in the fore and aft plane. 

 

They will of course to some extent also add stability at the back of the machine in the side to side plane. That's the part where you have to be somewhat cautious. Putting too much weight and dependency on the outside tire is what gives you the potential for breaking things like axles, cast iron hubs, or wheel bearing needles. That's the reason for wanting the inner tires to have more air pressure so they will be holding most of the weight most of the time.

 

 

Dual tires definitely looks AWESOME.  No way around It.

 

 

One thing that's important to remember when setting up something like this is that nature's laws of physics can't be changed.

You'll be dealing with gravity and friction already so let's introduce levers and fulcrums.

 

Something I was reading about having a rear weight box just recently sounds like a great idea.

If you have a rear weight box that sits behind the machine as a counterbalance to the load on the front of the machine that counterbalance not only puts all of its own weight on the rear axle but it also removes some of the weight from the front axle .

We can put all the rear weight we want IN the tires and around the wheels but you can't change the fact that it's going to be pushing very nearly straight down at the center point of the axle.

 

If you put a counterbalance weight out behind the rear axle thereby taking some pressure off of the front axle it will relieve some of the strain on the front axle and steering mechanism and also make it easier for you to steer.

 

Was it me I think I would do both dual wheels AND a rear weight box....

[AMC RULES 37,132]

  Don't forget the added stress on them rear axle seals too, and running little to no air pressure in the added wheel set too. 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,608]

1 hour ago, AMC RULES said:

 and running little to no air pressure in the added wheel set too. 

 

Thats what I did with no issues...

 

 

 

@pullstart has her now... perhaps he will return her to the fat bottom glory days...?

[Pullstart 62,922]

I have thought about duals on my loader tractor.  I have had one instance where I was trying to scoop with the corner of the bucket to level a mound and when I lifted to dump it into the yard trailer it tipped very quickly.   An evenly loaded bucket would have prevented this.  

[SylvanLakeWH 25,608]

Curious if something like this would work to stabilize the loaders? It would eliminate the axle / seal concerns and still allow full mobility of the tractor... I think... 

 

 

 

Mount to the tractor not the axle... Kind of a rolling stabilizer... adjustable to just skim the ground surface...

 

(And I apologize for the color in advance ).

 

 

[DennisThornton 4,769]

The one tip I remember and have read 3 or 4 times in this thread is to run low pressure on the outside tire.  

And I would think that duals are more suited to even terrain.

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

6 hours ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

Thats what I did with no issues...

 

 

 

@pullstart has her now... perhaps he will return her to the fat bottom glory days...?

I expected to see Mel Gibson on that Beast!

 

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

Well I took my extra 520 wheels with 23/10.5 AGs and did a little mock up. Suffice to say it looked cool but it would be ridiculously wide! I think I may search for another set of 520 rear rims and put 24/12/12's on them. That would be more practical and increase weight (loaded by a place in Maine, thanks Eric) and stability.  

[roadapples 6,983]

I don't want any part of my tractor wider than the bucket.

 And the looks of duels is a matter of opinion...  Used sensibly their not needed....

[WHNJ701 4,165]

9 hours ago, WheelhorseBob said:

 And of course they look cool. 

If you really want to be cool you should put triples on it, than you would be cooler than the dual people

Edited December 4, 2020 by jabelman

[Pullstart 62,922]

 
 

Out back AND up front!  

 

I personally like big and wide.  

[ebinmaine 67,703]

36 minutes ago, jabelman said:

If you really want to be cool you should put triples on it, than you would be cooler than the dual people

@WheelhorseBob

 

He's got a point. 

 

If you're going to use triple standard width tires out back I'll even give you a couple sets of rims. 

 

Why sit here and mess around with only two tires per side like everybody else in the entire world on a garden tractor when you could just step right up to the world of three tires per side and be the king of garden tractor tires.....

[8ntruck 7,022]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

@WheelhorseBob

 

He's got a point. 

 

If you're going to use triple standard width tires out back I'll even give you a couple sets of rims. 

 

Why sit here and mess around with only two tires per side like everybody else in the entire world on a garden tractor when you could just step right up to the world of three tires per side and be the king of garden tractor tires.....

 

You saying that duals or triples conform to the horse power rule of "if some is good, more is better, and too much is just right"? 

[ebinmaine 67,703]

1 hour ago, 8ntruck said:

 

You saying that duals or triples conform to the horse power rule of "if some is good, more is better, and too much is just right"? 

YESS

[8ntruck 7,022]

19 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

YESS

 

Ok.  Do I hear a bid for quad rear wheels?

[WheelhorseBob 1,549]

I have a budget fellas even though it’s twice what I told my wife, Quads?

[ebinmaine 67,703]

12 minutes ago, WheelhorseBob said:

I have a budget fellas even though it’s twice what I told my wife, Quads?

I'll still supply the wheels just to see it. 

[WHNJ701 4,165]

1 hour ago, WheelhorseBob said:

I have a budget fellas even though it’s twice what I told my wife, Quads?

Quads! Now that's just crazy talk

[8ntruck 7,022]

40 minutes ago, jabelman said:

Quads! Now that's just crazy talk

 

Yup.  You got us - crazy!