Hydraulics/log splitter questions

[ebinmaine 67,292]

I've been thinking about adding a couple of extra splitting flanges to my log splitter which would shorten up the time that we spend using the machine. 

 

I know I could add a cross splitter and have no concern about it and I've been thinking about adding a couple of lower diagonals as well.

 

Is there a way to determine the actual tonnage power of this cylinder?

 

I can tell you from past experience it will lay into a 22-in diameter piece of hardwood and the governor barely even catches before it pushes through...

 

Just wondering if there's something that I'm not thinking about or missing? Any thoughts?

 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,493]

 

And we’re gonna need pics...!

[ebinmaine 67,292]

7 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

 

And we’re gonna need pics...!

I can try to give you a drawing of what it is or maybe a short video description when I get home but the actual project itself I probably won't do for a few weeks. 

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

Are using a standard (v) wedge ? Are you thing more of a 4 way (+) wedge instead?

[ebinmaine 67,292]

Just now, WVHillbilly520H said:

Are using a standard (v) wedge ? Are you thing more of a 4 way (+) wedge instead?

Yessir

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

1 minute ago, ebinmaine said:

Yessir

I know Northern Tool offers a 4way accessories wedge. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200631791_200631791

[Pullstart 62,800]

I think if you move the secondary wedges back a few inches, it’ll drastically reduce the tonnage required 

[gwest_ca-(File Mod) 11,033]

I do not recommend a 4-way wedge for the average splitter. The horizontal pair can exert tremendous pressure on the slide because it forces the wood against the bed and it can not go anywhere but up.

A 3-way may work OK if the bottom wedge is vertical but you may still end up with 4 pieces of wood.

 

Garry

[WVHillbilly520H 10,373]

https://youtu.be/pw2wnOyz8WU

[ebinmaine 67,292]

2 minutes ago, WVHillbilly520H said:

I know Northern Tool offers a 4way accessories wedge. https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200631791_200631791

That's about what I was thinking but much more prettier

 

 

7 minutes ago, gwest_ca said:

I do not recommend a 4-way wedge for the average splitter. The horizontal pair can exert tremendous pressure on the slide because it forces the wood against the bed and it can not go anywhere but up.

A 3-way may work OK if the bottom wedge is vertical but you may still end up with 4 pieces of wood.

 

Garry

 

I don't have a picture or video handy of how the end of mine is set up. I appreciate your input and I'll take a look at it and post more later.

 

Our splitter is far from normal having been hand built by a logger but I'm not sure of the width of the bed and how far it goes forward under the splitting V. 

 

[SylvanLakeWH 25,493]

44 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

I can try to give you a drawing of what it is or maybe a short video description when I get home but the actual project itself I probably won't do for a few weeks. 

Sounds like a plan... 

 

Uhm... that ain’t gonna delay Colossus is it...? 

 

[Pullstart 62,800]

If I was to weld wings onto a wedge, I’d sharpen the top only and have the wings on a slight angle as to pick the top pieces up off the bed.

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,292]

6 minutes ago, SylvanLakeWH said:

that ain’t gonna delay Colossus is it..

Oh no. No sir .. not at all.

 

 

[oilwell1415 563]

2 hours ago, ebinmaine said:

Is there a way to determine the actual tonnage power of this cylinder?

 

Just wondering if there's something that I'm not thinking about or missing? Any thoughts?

 

If the pump has a tag on it you can look and see what pressure it is rated at.  Multiply that pressure times the area of the cylinder and it will tell you how many pounds of force it is capable of supplying.  You can also measure the speed that the cylinder extends in feet per second and multiply, then multiply that times the force above and divide the result by 550 to see how much power the hydraulic system is capable of producing.  That should be fairly close to the rated power of the engine.  If you really wanted to dive in, get a hydraulic pressure gauge and see how much pressure the system is actually building while it works.  That will give you an idea of how much room to grow the splitter has.  If you are at or near the rated pressure as it is, you are asking for trouble by adding something that will add more load to the system.

 

I agree with the previous post about the possibility that this will put the splitter in a bind and cause you more problems than it's worth.  If it's a vertical machine you'll probably be OK, but if it's horizontal I wouldn't do it.

[Pullstart 62,800]

3 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

.  If it's a vertical machine you'll probably be OK, but if it's horizontal I wouldn't do it.

Most all firewood processors are in a horizontal position.  Why would that have anything to do with the performance of the wedge?

 

 

EB.  What kind of wood do you primarily split?  Is it super hard and twisted, or fairly straight and easy splitting?

[ebinmaine 67,292]

3 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

horizontal

Great input there. Thank you.

 

It is horizontal, yes but it isn't one of these modern toys. 

 

I don't recall ever looking at the pump itself but the cylinder does not have any tags on it. 

I'm fairly sure we bought it three years ago and the fellow that built it put it together in 2012. 

He thinks he had put a 40-ton cylinder on there but he did that stuff for a living and he wasn't positive after owning it for five years or so. 

 

 

[ebinmaine 67,292]

11 minutes ago, pullstart said:

What kind of wood do you primarily split?  Is it super hard and twisted, or fairly straight and easy splitting?

The vast majority of it is not twisted. 

All of it is hardwood. 

Oak and Maple are rarely done but those are fairly straight grained and easy enough. 

It's the beech trees that can be kind of curly and that's most of what we do. 

 

 

 

Here's a picture that shows the current wedge setup on the front and you'll notice that there's a small log on the splitter beam.

Zoom in to see...

 

The main beam is only 4" across with NO BED. 

 

 

 

[oilwell1415 563]

20 minutes ago, pullstart said:

Most all firewood processors are in a horizontal position.  Why would that have anything to do with the performance of the wedge?

 

 

EB.  What kind of wood do you primarily split?  Is it super hard and twisted, or fairly straight and easy splitting?

All of those but one are commercial splitters and designed from the start to do multiple cuts at once.  The one second from the left on the bottom row is the only personal use design and it is a perfect example of why it can cause problems.  There is a vertical wedge that splits the log in half, and three horizontal wedges added to it.  This is all mounted to a solid beam.  When the horizontal wedges split the wood it has nowhere to expand to vertically.  The bottom two pieces are going to be bound up between the beam and the first horizontal wedge.  The two middle pieces will be bound up between the first and second wedges, etc.  Every other splitter you showed is designed so the wood is able to expand outward from the wedges.

[oilwell1415 563]

28 minutes ago, ebinmaine said:

Great input there. Thank you.

 

It is horizontal, yes but it isn't one of these modern toys. 

 

I don't recall ever looking at the pump itself but the cylinder does not have any tags on it. 

I'm fairly sure we bought it three years ago and the fellow that built it put it together in 2012. 

He thinks he had put a 40-ton cylinder on there but he did that stuff for a living and he wasn't positive after owning it for five years or so. 

 

 

What is the diameter of the cylinder?  Most are rated at 3,000 psi, so you could use that and the diameter to find the force it can apply.  A 40 ton cylinder would probably be 6".

[ebinmaine 67,292]

2 minutes ago, oilwell1415 said:

What is the diameter of the cylinder?  Most are rated at 3,000 psi, so you could use that and the diameter to find the force it can apply.  A 40 ton cylinder would probably be 6".

I'll have to check it later...

[Achto 27,509]

Here is my experience with multi wedge splitters. They work great as long as most of your wood is the same diameter. IE. a piece that you want to split into 4 pieces. Smaller or larger pieces can be an issue.

[ebinmaine 67,292]

1 minute ago, Achto said:

Here is my experience with multi wedge splitters. They work great as long as most of your wood is the same diameter. IE. a piece that you want to split into 4 pieces. Smaller or larger pieces can be an issue.

 

 

I had had the same thought.

 

I'll explain my mindset and maybe one of you can argue for or against it...

 

Trina and her mom both like to have the firewood approximately half the size of what you would consider standard.

 

That's fine with both of them because it makes it easier to handle, stack, put in the stove, etc. And they are more than willing to put in the extra time as you all well know. 

 

She and I were talking about it one day and I got to thinking that if I was to put a set of cross wedges on about three inches up from the point of zero then those two lower pieces would not need to be split again no matter what was happening above them.

 

Other stuff needs to be split again above it? Drop it down and split it.....

 

I don't think I would try to do the spider web type configuration or a star unless I had a much more powerful machine...

 

 

[8ntruck 6,991]

If you install a pressure gage  in the line that makes the cylinder extend, you will see what the working pressure in the cylinder is while the wood is being split.  Multiply the peak pressure during the work stroke by the piston diameter and decide by 2000 to get your working tonnage.

 

If your working pressure is near the rated pressure of the pump, adding additional wedges probably isn't a good idea.

 

If the working pressure is higher as the log contacts the wedge, then drops off as the log splits, that will give you an idea of how much set back you need to give your secondary wedges to minimize the load on the hydraulic system.

 

Neat project. Please continue with updates.

[8ntruck 6,991]

6 minutes ago, 8ntruck said:

If you install a pressure gage  in the line that makes the cylinder extend, you will see what the working pressure in the cylinder is while the wood is being split.  Multiply the peak pressure during the work stroke by the piston diameter and decide by 2000 to get your working tonnage.

 

If your working pressure is near the rated pressure of the pump, adding additional wedges probably isn't a good idea.

 

If the working pressure is higher as the log contacts the wedge, then drops off as the log splits, that will give you an idea of how much set back you need to give your secondary wedges to minimize the load on the hydraulic system.

 

Neat project. Please continue with updates.

 

Oops.  Sorry, I made a mistake. When calculating hydraulic cylinder force multiply piston AREA by pressure and decide by 2000 to get tons.  The area of the piston is 3.14 times the square of the piston radius.